Re: Chronic Neck Pain

>"this is probably..." -- but does he say what "this" is?

He says its increased bone mass, and I do not doubt that - feeling it,
its just as bony as my elbow

>Does he feel the enlargement when he palpates your neck?

I'm not sure what palpates means, but yes he can feel it when he
manipulates my neck.

>What does he attribute it to?

He attributes it to the injury; he says its my body's natural response
to my injuries (perhaps a "bruise" of sorts)

> If he doesn't know, would you want another opinion? An enlargement
> that, you think, is bone probably should be seen by an orthopedist. You
> haven't mentioned neurologic symptoms, like numbing down your arms and
> others.

I'll consider that.

> When was your last MRI?

Less than 6 months ago.

> When you say "No one
> mentioned" your bony mass does that mean you saw the radiology rept and
> it said there were no abnormalitites?

It did mention some minor things, in a language which I didn't really
understand, but basically meant that there was a little wear and tear
(which is not suprising, considering my injuries). But it never said
anything specifically about the bone enlargement on the left side of my
neck, and that has always suprised me a little bit. I've also tried
looking at the MRIs themselves for evidence of the enlargement, but it
really isn't noticable on the MRI. Of course, I'm not trained to read
MRIs either.

> Your mass that you think is bone could be a big muscle spasm.

I really doubt it. Like I said, if I feel the bones in my arm, they
feel just as bony as the lump in my neck. It just feels like bone, I
don't know what else to say.

> I feel, for me, that the muscle spasms are the cause of my pain.

I do have noticable muscle spasms occasionally, to the point where I
know my muscle is actively spasming. But I think its also possible to
have muscle spasms and not be able to feel it. I do have one big muscle
clump in my left shoulder which is very tight and painful to the touch
- that may be spasming a lot. But I think still, that may be a side
effect of the big lump in my neck.

> I'm
> not sure how much stronger I can make my neck; I am working on other
> body parts. I've learned, in the past - first injury, it's good to keep
> surrounding muscles strong to help support you in ways weak ones can't.

I'll keep that in mind. Right now I'm running a couple miles a few
times a week to stay in shape and help re-align my body. I do have to
start working out, but it is almost impossible after a day of school
when my neck and shoulders are hurting me so much.

> (I can't type enough to mention the panic
> attacks, but if you're already on meds for that, without knowing you,
> I'd keep it as is)

I don't take medications for this - my panic attacks were caused by
tensions being placed on my nerves from my spinal tissue, which was a
result of my injuries. The osteopath I'm seeing has pretty much fixed
most of the injury I've sustained, restoring the natural movement my
body lost as a result of those injuries. My panic attacks went away as
a result of this.

And just a side note, I know my doctor is certainly not a quack. He
knows the human body. The best evidence I can give for him is that if
you are injured in some particular way, he can usually figure out how
you injured yourself just by the way you stand up. It's truly amazing.
For example, one time I fell on my ass really hard, and he could tell
that's the type of injury I sustained. Another time I tried to lift
something way too heavy, and he could tell. Another time I got hit in
the head, and he could tell, and also the exact spot where the impact
hit. And of course he knows how to treat almost any type of injury. He
can't always do it in one session or even in several, but he always
makes progress. I'm very happy with him, but unfortunately he just
can't help me a lot in this aspect of my condition. He's more of a
mechanic, I suppose.

> Do you exersize it at all? Has your dr given you any exercizes?

Yes. He has given me a set of isometric exercises to do. I have yet to
do these consistently - I do them on and off. I also have ADD, and I am
really not good at scheduling and organizing my time.

> I hope I did that. But take my opinion with a grain of salt, as you
> would take anoyone's. I didn't look at your neck, I've been in the
> medical system far too long. The only thing I regocnize in your post is
> underevaluation and undertreatment. No one on the internet can diagnose
> you or tell you what to do -- that part is pure assumption from our own
> experiences.
>
> Good luck. And don't be hard on yourself about school! You're going
> and graduating, pain and all -- that's excellent. Once I was hard on
> myself for the distance I couldn't walk. A few years later a car
> accident has me homebound. You're doing well, pushing yourself very
> hard it seems to me. An OT might offer you advice about time management
> so you can rest more and not push and push throughout the day so you
> can build the endurance to minimize your pain.

Thank you. I will pursue getting evaluated by some other types of
doctors and getting more opinions. I suppose I have tried to do this,
but when I describe my symptoms to my general/family doctor, she really
doesn't seem to have any idea what's wrong with my neck. She's even
felt the bone mass herself, and she hasn't ever recommended seeing an
orthopedic doctor or anything. But I'll ask her specifically about it
the next time I see her.

Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice and experience, I
really appreciate it. And best of luck to you also - I'll keep you in
my prayers.

foundpoem@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Dan wrote:
> > one of my
> > cervical vertebrae is enlarged on the left side. It seems to be about
> > the 3rd or 4th vertebra down. It is quite noticable - anyone can feel
> > my neck and feel that it is there. It's hard to estimate, but I would
> > say it protrudes maybe about 1 or 2 centimeters moreso than the other
> > side. The enlargement feels round and smooth - its not pointy or
> > anything. But it does seem like it is getting in the way of my muscles
> > and ligaments. On the right side, if I rub in the same area, it feels
> > normal - no pain. If I rub on the side with the enlargement, it has
> > kind of a slow burn feel to it, and I can feel the bone, and my muscles
> > rubbing up against the bone. Also, my left neck/shoulder muscles are
> > larger than those on the right side (by about a half inch to an inch)
> > and I have one isolated ligament/muscle bundle on the left side which
> > stands out especially clearly when I tense up my neck.
> >
> > My doctor has said that this is probably a result of the injury,
>
>
> "this is probably..." -- but does he say what "this" is? Does he feel
> the enlargement when he palpates your neck? What does he attribute it
> to? If he doesn't know, would you want another opinion? An enlargement
> that, you think, is bone probably should be seen by an orthopedist. You
> haven't mentioned neurologic symptoms, like numbing down your arms and
> others.
>
> I have disabling neck pain from a car accident over two years ago. I
> have positive MRI results -- disk herniations, reverse cervical
> lordosis, etc., but my pain always feels muscular. The spasms are the
> worst -- typing this will set me back a couple hours. Spasms lead to
> tightness, which leads to upper back tightness and pain. I, too, feel
> better if I lie down when in that condition, but lying down too much
> also causes stiffness/pain. The first year my doctor -- also an
> osteopath -- didn't do much at all but tell me my pain is normal given
> my injury and its combination w/a previous runnng injury. I got worse
> and worse, until I was in bed all the time. Still, I got worse and
> worse. I thought it was pain. Finally, I got into physical therapy (1
> yr post-accident), then occupational therapy. PT taught me to stretch
> and strenthen. A year ago I was in bed and couldn't move my head side
> to side, wouldn't get up to get water or food. I am more flexible and
> strong now, though still disabled. And I have learned a lot, mostly in
> PT and OT. It's hard; I now am having to re-train my previous injury
> that no one focused on while working on my neck, so my legs/hip are too
> weak to support me, which causes me to hold myself up by my upper body,
> which causes muscle spasms...the cycle.
>
> Re: meds. I've been on medication since the accident and am now
> tapering off. It makes me tired and I feel medicated and crappy. I've
> not liked it from the start, and had to go through many before finding
> one I could tolerate. This came from a Pain Management doctor. I
> wouldn't go that route yet if I were you. I'd see another doctor for
> another opinion. When was your last MRI? When you say "No one
> mentioned" your bony mass does that mean you saw the radiology rept and
> it said there were no abnormalitites? If you've not seen the report,
> call teh hospital that performed the MRI and ask them to send you a
> copy -- it's your right.
>
> Your mass that you think is bone could be a big muscle spasm. Your
> doctor seems not to know if all he says is "probably from the injury."
> I feel, for me, that the muscle spasms are the cause of my pain. I'm
> not sure how much stronger I can make my neck; I am working on other
> body parts. I've learned, in the past - first injury, it's good to keep
> surrounding muscles strong to help support you in ways weak ones can't.
> But the meds -- I can't agree with the advice. The stuff is strong and
> if you don't trust drs, as I don't as well, wait until you meet the
> pharmaceutical industry and pain killers. And tapering on and off, and
> side effects and w'drawal. (I can't type enough to mention the panic
> attacks, but if you're already on meds for that, without knowing you,
> I'd keep it as is)
>
> >From what you wrote, I think: Try a new dr first, another opinion; get
> your MRI records; if it's been a long time see if you can have another
> MRI. You can also have a bone scan, but I'd be willing to bet those are
> muscle spasms you're having. You also can have an EMG to see if you're
> having neurological problems. If all tests come up negative, I'd find
> a very gentle physical therapist and have a consultation but no harsh
> manipulation since you're undiagnosed. (I am undiagnosed in my pelvic
> area from running, and it's been battered and butchered and injected to
> the point I wish I never saw a doctor). If you'd like to know more
> about PT and OT you can email me; I'm not sure how often I'll be able
> to check back at this board.
>
> I see, I think, that the people here are medication-oriented, which I
> am not putting down *at all* truly and genuinely -- anything that lets
> you live, do -- it sounds from this post there are things you can do
> first is why I mentioned it, since you got advise about pain meds
> already.
>
> but my
> > muscles and stuff can adapt to it and it shouldn't be a problem.
>
>
> Oh, the great doctor line when they don't know -- "that should be...."
> Well, it is. Doesn't mean it's chronic for life, doesn't mean it can't
> improve, perhaps still be with you, but less -- take it a step at a
> time.
>
> Do you exersize it at all? Has your dr given you any exercizes?
>
> But
> > the pain does usually occur or stem from this area, so I'm not too
> > sure...
>
> You may never be sure, or you may be sure. You can only take the steps
> that are within the knowlege base of medicine as it is now, despite the
> fact we are often told, if it doesn't show up it isn't there (or in
> your case many "probablies). In two years there will be another test
> invented and what do you know - there it is.
>
> > If anyone has experienced similar symptoms or could offer me any words
> > of advice or any directions to pursue, I would be very greatful.
>
> I hope I did that. But take my opinion with a grain of salt, as you
> would take anoyone's. I didn't look at your neck, I've been in the
> medical system far too long. The only thing I regocnize in your post is
> underevaluation and undertreatment. No one on the internet can diagnose
> you or tell you what to do -- that part is pure assumption from our own
> experiences.
>
> Good luck. And don't be hard on yourself about school! You're going
> and graduating, pain and all -- that's excellent. Once I was hard on
> myself for the distance I couldn't walk. A few years later a car
> accident has me homebound. You're doing well, pushing yourself very
> hard it seems to me. An OT might offer you advice about time management
> so you can rest more and not push and push throughout the day so you
> can build the endurance to minimize your pain.
>
> Again, before I'm flamed, I'm not anti-medication or intervention. It
> sounds as though there haven't been enough diagnostics or less
> intrusive methods done in this case first.
>
> --

.

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