Re: otp - is there such a thing as . . .[kind of long]

w0w! this reminds me of the u of w jewish studies course on tv--
wonderfully informative. but yours was a much more intimate peek into a
religious culture many of us have never been blest to be exposed to. how
supportive and loving in grief, as well as practical and wise. thank you
for taking the time and putting soooo much effort into sharing this with me,
adelle. it is very sweet and uplifting, as well as meaningful.

i have a friend who invites me to attend her sabbats (sp?) occassionally. i
so love those dinners, not just for the great food, but because of the very
rich and very meaningful traditions associated with these feasts. somehow,
these dinners are like a party for the heart to me. i know how silly that
must sound to most of you, but i really don't know how else to explain what
i mean.

i did go to glo's tupperware party. bought nothing, but did bring her a
gift (thought that was appropriate, in lieu of the purchase i knew i wasn't
going to make.). went because i hadn't seen her in ages and i knew many of
her other family members (who are also my girlfriends) would be there. went
also because i don't like it when i allow enervation to dictate my actions
or inactions (i'm the same way about allowing my fears to dictate, too.
weird, huh?lol). i stayed later than i intended, but it was like nobody
wanted to go home, or wanted us to go home, after the tupperware lady left.
everyone was "catching-up" on the details in the lives of others of us. had
we been in my mother's culture, we were like "viejitas" (crones of wickedly
funny wit) sitting around the table, cracking jokes, laughing, offering
wisdom and sharing hugs and tears. glo's irish and not puerto rican though,
and i don't know if there is a gaelic word for "viejitas"; but trust me,
there really should be a gaelic word.<smile>

i like the idea of a vacation very much, too. i can't do more than an hour
on a plane these days, not without discomfort. but, i'm thinking about it
and thinking about where to go. i'll come up with something or the universe
will help clarify where for me. i'm open.

btw, i didn't seem to express myself clearly. alex moved out almost two
years ago, which was mutually agreeable. that's why i was thinking
"delayed" empty nest syndrome. sorry for the confusion, everyone.

i kinda think of my moments of depression as just another emotion, normal
and transitory. i expected/expect to have my moments of depression and know
it will pass. i'm not concerned about it, but was concerned with what
seemed very odd for/to me and my personality. so, if that's symptomatic of
depression, i get it and its ok, then. i'll get through it, cuz that's the
only way past it. i think i did my major grieving for my mother's loss long
ago, at the time when she no longer recognized us because of her
alzheimer's. i am conflicted about my father, but it's sorta ok and i'm ok
and i'm still processing it all. (there will be a military service, as he
was on the uss ranger, a flattop, during ww2.) at times like this, i think
i miss butch's hugs most of all, though. something about his hugs seemed to
make everything feel like everything is as it should be, ok, even when it is
a bit wonky or i am.

my nephews and my son were here last week/weekend (from thursday through
sunday), incredibly generously splitting what they estimated was ten cords
of firewood for me and somehow magically making this place come alive with
their male vitality. it is just amazing to me how guys can be magic that
way. that male energy just permeates and kindles life.

you guys have the biggest hearts and the sweetest, kindest open arms. thank
you, all of you for being you and being here.

lovingly and gratefully,
kate




"Adelle" <adNOstavis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:aaOdnVMQQ7Ika8PbnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Diane" <dcham@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180623233.397633.225110@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
honey, i'd be amazed if you weren't feeling this way right now. you
just lost your mother and father, and now alex is leaving. you are
sooooo normal. your symptoms are those of depression, but there's
normal reactive depression and then there's the kind you don't pull
out of. i think it's too soon for you to have such high expectations
of yourself.

should you see a therapist? it might help to have someone to talk your
feelings through with. i don't know that you need antidepressants
right now--if you still feel this down in another couple of weeks,
then i'd say yes, to get you through this time.

i love nann's idea of getting away, especially with a good friend.

grief just plain sucks, and i know you've had more than your share of
it. if we could only discover life's fast forward button, we could
make a mint.

hugs,

diane

Hi, Kate;

Agree with Diane 100%. You've suffered two major losses close together and
Alex will be leaving - anticipating another loss. Of course your psyche is
reacting. Look for a grief support group in your community. You may not need
one-on-one stuff to get you through this. Just the support within a grief
group may be all you need. If you find yourself isolating more (choosing not
to be with people), not showering, staying in bed - then it may be time to
ask your doc for a referral so you can get anti-depressants. But unless you
tend toward depression normally, I wouldn't run to medication, just walk.

Forgoing a normal activity - the Tupperware Party - is a flashing red light
for depression and grief. some people just can't muster the energy to be
social after a loss. SOme people like th be around others; it's just the
transition from being alone to being social that seems overwhelming.

If you think you will feel better while you are there, then go. It may give
you a few moments of respite. Don't want to spend money on stuff you won't
use? Take old cracked Tupperware and see if they can replace it under
warranty - or just return it for recycling. Or buy things you can store
single servings of food for freezing. My sister never got the knack of
cooking for only one, so she cooked for the usual crowd (we were 6 at home
when we all learned to cook - and always cooked so there would be leftovers)
and froze single servings for lunches for work or easy dinners for when she
was working late.

Lastly - there are all sorts of ways of expreriencing loss. Jews have a
different take on things than many other religions. Judaism assumes there
are stages to grief and it will take time to deal with it. We don't assume
you can go out there and go live your life as normal. There is no 'just get
on with life'.

In Judaism, the mourning period only begins once burial has taken place; the
death just isn't real until then and everyone is caught up in arrangements.
The first week of mourning (after the burial), it is assumed you need as
much support around you as possible and you will be unable to deal with
normal tasks. It is required you stay at home. People come and visit you and
bring food to your home. They are supposed to listen to you, to sit and let
you talk - about whatever you need to talk about. Services are held (at your
home) every day. Since the prayers require a quorum of ten, it assures there
will be at least that many community members coming to your home to support
you, to help you know you are not alone and the community is there for you.

After seven days - you are going stir crazy and are tired of having people
traipse through your home. You want some privacy (believe me. Been there.
Lost my dad in 2000). On that last morning of the 7th day, community members
are supposed to come to your home and take you out for a walk, so you are
supported in that initial re-entry to society and the world. For the first
30 days, there are restrictions on what you may do in terms of celebrations
and what can be asked of you in terms of leading services at synagogue. It
is expected you will need to be with people, but not be ready to take a
forward role. You need to just exist and feel for a while.

In recognition that this loss will touch you profoundly, there is a
requirement to say a particular prayer on a daily basis. The time period for
how long you are required to say this prayer changes, based on whether
you've lost a parent or child, or other close relative. The prayer requires
being in that quorum, requiring you do go be with people. The minimum
requirement is thirty days. In recognition of the profound affect on your
life, for parents, one says the prayer for 11 or 12 months (depends on your
regional traditions). Its only after that first year it is expected that you
don't need daily support. But still, a person is supposed to say that prayer
on the anniversary of the loss, for the rest of our lives - because that's
how long we'll feel that sense of loss.

Here's a great explanation from a source on Mourning, taking the viewpoint
from the Conservative denomination within Judaism (a liberal wing):
http://www.mazornet.com/mazornet/deathandmourning/ConservativeFirstYear.html

Formal Mourning for the Loss of A Parent
Jewish tradition instruction children to mourn the loss of a parent for a
full year. A year to recover. A year to figure out what it means to be the
child of a parent who is no longer physically present. A year to live in a
state of memory. A year to begin setting a parent's shortcomings into
perspective. A year to figure out how to live without one who gave you life.
A year to begin letting go of the hurt.

Losing a parent leaves an ineffable void. This loss is granted the longest
period of mourning by the Jewish tradition that seeks to limit mourning
periods. A year's worth of attention is a salute to a parent's ultimate gift
to a child: life.

Mourning Observances Kaddish is recited for eleven or twelve months.

After the Shloshim [thirty days after the burial - Adelle] and until the
first anniversary of a death, the mourner stays away from purely social
parties [some say, only occasions where there would be music - Adelle] but
attends religious events like weddings, bar mitzvahs, circumcisions, and
brit habat [for daughters -Adelle] celebrations.

So - back to stuff from Adelle. Don't rush. Don't push. Feelings are going
to well up at odd times. Just experience them. You don't need to interpret
them, push them away, justify them, expain them to anyone. They are just
there. That's what grief and being human is all about.

Sending hugs and love - Adelle



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