Re: Peyton Manning / Tom Brady (long, but hopefully interesting)



On Feb 1, 4:11 pm, "MZ" <m...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"D" <ftballtennis...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:d60671d6-0b22-4e58-b5df-2ae6e00b40a1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<<I think you need to see footage of some other guys. I think Brady is
quite good at making time in the pocket, but it's one thing to avoid
an occasional pass rusher who gets through versus a full out rush.
Brady has a slower release than even Peyton so other than an
occasional play here/there he needs his feet set in the pocket. Peyton
is actually better at throwing on those roll outs to the right these
days, but I think Brady is better at standing tall in the pocket.>>

It's not a matter of rolling out or having a quick release (although those
things CAN be a way to combat a pass rush). It's about sidestepping the
rush and stepping up in the pocket, and the presence of mind to do either.
No, he doesn't do those other things as well as other guys, but he doesn't
need to. Anyway, the point remains: he makes his own time. And,
regardless of release time, he does it better than Manning.


I agree about this. Manning throws pretty well rolling out now, but he
doesn't step up like Brady. Get's jittery against a rush, that's
always been the knock against him.

<<You
should watch Montana, Elway, and Marino footage of them in their prime
for other guys who made time in the pocket. Brady is most like Marino,
in that he might make a false step here, or slide there but I like
Montana and Elway more because they could do this as well and evade
multiple pass rushers, and were much better (I think the best two
ever) at throwing without being balanced and set. I think people
forget how good athletes Elway and Montana were in the 80s during
their prime. I'd upload footage, except I'm a novice on how to do
that.>>

I've seen plenty of footage on all of the guys you mentioned. And yes, I
tend to agree that they were also very good at it. The fact that we are
mentioning Brady in the same breath (or, at least, I am) is proof enough
that Brady is great at it. We'll see how Brady finishes his career before
truly making the comparison; because as it stands now, Montana and
especially Marino seemed to me to not fare as well in the twilights of their
careers. Although Marino's supporting cast wasn't so hot by that time, and
it can often be hard to dissociate the two in some aspects. I seem to also
recall Elway losing some of his mobility in his later years, which was a
defining attribute to his ability to avoid the rush, but you'd know more
about that than I would. Regardless, whether Brady will be known as the
best at it or not, he's extremely good at it (I would argue it's his
greatest trait) and his offensive line has gained a good reputation because
of it.

Marino was never quite good at it once he tore his achilles in 1993.
He was still a pretty good quarterback, but couldn't avoid the rush as
much and move quite as good as he did. Marino also got hit a lot in
his career despite his quick release. It was a pretty nasty game when
he started playing quarterback, and they did get hit a lot.....just to
note, it was worse even before Marino. Marino reminds me of Brady in
his movement. They both make these subtle steps and slides to gain
time. I blame Don Shula greatly for Marino not getting a Super Bowl,
he never could put a physical team around Marino, and I have never
thought him as good a coach as he is rated, or seemingly feels he
himself is. Both Marino and Brady are good at moving up in the pocket
to avoid end passrushers.

Montana was a really beautiful athlete in his grace and movement. He
was just smooth in the way he moved, with no wasted motion, or
movement. A very efficient athlete, with less moving parts. Montana's
best period of him avoiding the rush and throwing on the run was with
the 49ers instead of the Chiefs of course, but especially before 1986
when he hurt his back. Montana was mobile, while Steve Young was a
runner. The type of offense Montana ran was in ways similar to the one
Brady does. Well, not in their formation, but rather in which part of
the field they attack. More intermediate, and less down the field. Of
course Montana could go deep, and Brady with Moss this year has gone
deep far more as well.

Elway became the type of quarterback who would slide later in his
career, but in his physical prime, which is before 1990 he would break
the pocket and throw downfield. Elway is the one quarterback who could
get out of trouble from multiple rushers, and rushers from his
backside. He had an amazing ability to sense (hear?) passrushers from
his blindside, do a 360 spin, and roll back towards the weakside of
the field and throw or run. I think Elway is the best quarterback I've
seen at handling a pass rush and making a play. Dan Fouts is the best
at hanging in there about to get killed. And that is evidenced by his
three Super Bowl appearances with mediocre teams, which were just bad
upfront on the line of scrimmage. I will always be more impressed by
his three Super Bowl appearances than his two wins. He carried a
mediocre team to those three Super Bowls. I have the dvd of the 1989
AFC Championship Game where he is getting pressured all day, up the
middle of the field and making throws all over on the run, off
balance. An amazing performance. Elway could get away from rushers
from up the middle as well. I wish there were more clips on
youtube...I should put some one.....but I found these clips (one
college) showcasing his athleticism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfRsU7MxM-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVSg8BA1xw


<<Bledsoe is the extreme opposite, in that he can make his offensive
line look bad by holding onto the ball too long.>>

Which was the reason in bringing him up to further advance the point that
it's as much a QB measure as it is a line measure. And it wasn't just a
matter of Drew being unable to get rid of the ball (which, yes, I believe
was a problem), but also because he simply had poor pocket awareness.

I agree and think Bledsoe is the type of quarterback who really needed
a stout offensive line around him. He certainly was a great thrower
with his feet set. I always liked Bledsoe, and thought he was only
about 80% of the quarterback he could have been. I don't know if he
was stubborn, or just didn't have pocket presence. You'd know better
about this than I. I thought Bledsoe played bravely and clutch at the
end of the 90s. I remember a night game against, I think Buffalo,
where he brought them back, or close with an injury. Heck of a
performance. It seems that some of the big-armed quarterbacks
sometimes are less reluctant to check down more. Probably a case of
too much arm sometimes.

-D


.



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