Re: Belichick on football history


49er gold wrote:
> "MZ" <mark@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. First of all, from every report
> > I've read, linemen on both sides of the ball are bigger today on average
> > than they were then.
>
> Todays lineman are just fat guys. Back then, with the help of steroids,
> they were 100% muscle. Tough as nails and would dominate in todays
> watered down teams of the NFL.

I had a friend who was fairly recently a UConn offensive tackle (before
they were even division I-A). He was 6'4", 290 pounds and he was
*humongous*. Big, heavy, gorilla-strength. Oh, and he could lift
those 290 pounds off the ground and windmill dunk, quite easily.

I'd say that if that's the case for a low-level division I-A offensive
lineman, that most of your professional linemen are even bigger,
stronger, and better athletes. In other words, they're not just "fat
guys".

> > Second, the salary cap doesn't determine how talented
> > players are or how many talented players there are, but rather how they're
> > distributed in the league. I think you're confused.
>
> I think you are the one confused. In fact you are making the point for
> me while disagreeing at the same time. The whole purpose of the cap was
> to even things up and distribute the talent. The caps purpose is to
> water down the teams so that everyone gets a chance to win 4 years or
> so. For example, The good teams were so stacked with talent that the
> Patriots of today would finish about 6-10 in the old days against teams
> like the 49ers, Steelers, Cowboys, etc. This is just basic common
> football sense.

Last year's Patriots team would have annihilated the 72 Dolphins, if
you could mythically play them against one another. Why?

1. The ability to break down film is at a much higher level today than
it was then. More cameras, more angles, more research. More is known
about the opponent than ever before. Coaches and teams are simply
better prepared based on the knowledge available.

2. Miami's offensive line averaged probably about 240-250 pounds.
John Hannah (hall of fame Patriots guard in the 70's and 80's) only
weighed 260 pounds, give or take a few. I wonder how a 240 pound
center is going to move Vince Wilfork, or how a 265 pound tackle is
going to handle 310 pound Richard Seymour. Oh, and Wilfork and Seymour
are (considering the UConn example I gave earlier) probably are much
quicker and faster than those 240 and 250 pound Miami offensive
linemen. So Miami's OL couldn't road grade the Pats' D, and they
couldn't out-quick them. What's left?

3. Reverse it now. NE's offensive line averages about 310 pounds,
while Miami's DL averaged about 240. I remember in 1985 when Miami had
a *huge* nose tackle named Mike Charles. He was a giant at that
position (physically speaking), and *** Enberg of NBC made a big deal
about it in the Pats-Dolphins AFC title game that year. How heavy was
he? 271 pounds. He was colossal at DL for his time, and that was in
1985. Imagine how much smaller they were in 1972.

In fact, according to http://www.finheaven.com/history/72roster.php,
here's the size of that Dolphin team's offensive linemen:

G Al Jenkins - 246 lbs
C Jim Langer - 257 lbs
G Larry Little - 260 lbs
G Bob Kuchenberg - 255 lbs
T Norm Evans - 250 lbs
T Wayne Moore - 265 lbs

That's an average weight of 255.5 lbs.

Now compare that to New England's offensive line in 2004 (from
http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsFBP/BC-FBP-LGNS-NEWENGLANDROS-R.html):

G Stephen Neal - 305 lbs
G Joe Andruzzi - 312 lbs
C Gene Mruczkowski - 305 lbs
C Dan Koppen - 296 lbs
G Russ Hochstein - 305 lbs
T Matt Light - 305 lbs
T Billy Yates - 305 lbs
T Brandon Gorin - 308 lbs

That's an average weight of 305 lbs (50 more per man than the 72
Dolphins).

Willie McGinest, an *outside linebacker* for the 2004 Patriots, weighed
270 pounds. That's 5 pounds more than any single offensive lineman for
the 72 Dolphins.

The 72 Dolphins were well coached and fundamentally sound. They had
quality players across the board. But all these things were true of
the Patriots as well. The big difference being this: the 2004
Patriots had a decisive size advantage (and speed, too, along both
lines). Given an average weight advantage of 50 pounds on the lines,
how hard would it be for NE to control the line of scrimmage on both
sides of the ball? Not hard at all.

The 2004 Pats would beat the 1972 Dolphins, based on these factors
alone, by 3 touchdowns.

John

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