Re: Wilpon/Madoff

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:20:31 +0000 (UTC), Ruben Safir
<ruben@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 02:17:19 -0500, Uncle Abogado® wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:09:08 -0500, Bill <billrubin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 2/5/2011 9:45 AM, Uncle Abogado® wrote:

This is sort of reminding me of the Reagan defense in the Iran-Contra
scandal, and I have the same sort of reaction that I had then. If
they knew what was going on, then they deserve whatever punishment
they get. If they didn't know what was going on, then they're
clearly too stupid to be entrusted with a major league baseball
franchise.

Is that how you feel about everyone who lost money with Madoff? Because
clearly the Wilpons were not the only ones who were fooled (not to
mention the SEC).

To some extent, yes. But much more so in the case of the Wilpons,
whose dealings with Madoff were apparently far more extensive than most,
and who were reportedly warned more than once by other associates that
Madoff was under suspicion and not to be trusted. Not only did those red
flags not stop them from throwing in with him, but they also reportedly
attempted to set up their own hedge fund using the Madoff model. How
could that not have raised questions internally at Sterling Equities if
these people really knew what they were doing?

This is nonsense

Do you have some inside information about this case that the rest of
us don't, Ruben? If not, then I don't think you're in any better
position to pronounce the Wilpons innocent than the rest of us to
judge them guilty. If it's all the same to you, though, I'll wait
for the evidence before I conclude that the allegations themselves are
"nonsense."

There are malicious rumors and a barrage of innuendo in high finance all
the time. If you listen to them all you'd be stuffing your money in a
mattress. The guy was a personal friend in charge of a major exchange and
supposedly involved in regulation of such exchanges. That would be good
enough and BTW - Madoff wasn't the only investment fund raking in record
profits in that time period.

But other investment funds weren't showing _continuous_ profits.
And it wasn't just innuendo from jealous investors; reportedly it was
other financial institutions that were warning the Wilpons and
Sterling Equities to be wary of Bernie Madoff.

It's easy to make these claims now.

Perhaps, but I'm not the one making them. And in light of the nature
of these charges, and the extent to which the Wilpons appear to have
profited from their relationship with Madoff, I'm finding their "babe in
the woods" defense to be something less than credible.

"Babe in the Woods" is not what they claim, nor would it be accurate.

"Babe in the woods" is exactly what they're claiming. It seems to me
that Fred and Jeffie were only happy to take Bernie Madoff's money
with no questions asked. And the reports circulating that Madoff
was himself offered an opportunity to become a part owner of the ball
club ought to send a chill up and down the spine of every Mets fan.

What is likely accurate is that the Wilpon's are saying, and it is true,
they had no clue about the intricacies of what Madoff was supposed to be
doing in is profession at that level at which he performed any more that
You or I would have any real insight into how the Wilpons and Ratner run
their real estate businesses.

But you and I aren't attempting to use Ratner as a business model for
constructing our own real estate empire. It's not clear to me that
the Wilpons were just passive investors with Madoff, and if it's true
that they intended to base their own hedge fund on the Madoff model,
then it defies credulity for them to contend that they had no clue
about how his operation worked.

I'm willing to wait for the courts to sort it all out, but the
Wilpons' apparent eagerness to throw hundreds of millions
of dollars at this problem just to make it go away doesn't exactly
support their Sgt Schultz ("I see nothing, I know nothing") defense.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Wilpon/Madoff
    ... But other investment funds weren't showing _continuous_ profits. ... financial institutions that were warning the Wilpons and Sterling ... Equities to be wary of Bernie Madoff. ... EveryONE in EVERY BUSINESS, depends and venerable to the expert investors ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Wilpon/Madoff
    ... This is sort of reminding me of the Reagan defense in the Iran-Contra ... Is that how you feel about everyone who lost money with Madoff? ... But much more so in the case of the Wilpons, ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Wilpon/Madoff
    ... This is sort of reminding me of the Reagan defense in the Iran-Contra ... Is that how you feel about everyone who lost money with Madoff? ... But much more so in the case of the Wilpons, ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: More Madoff
    ... New York Mets owner Fred Wilpon was old pals with mega-con man Bernie Madoff ... investments. ... the Wilpons and the Mets may have some financial hardships this ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Wilpon/Madoff
    ... But other investment funds weren't showing _continuous_ profits. ... retirement fund in the US showed otherwise and when Goldman-Sacs, ... all in with Madoff. ... financial institutions that were warning the Wilpons and Sterling ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)