Re: Yeah......Right!!!

On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:18:19 -0400, Tio Abogado® wrote:


But he's still worth more as a catcher relative to other catchers than
he would be as a first basemen, relative to other first basemen.

Piazza had a HoF bat regardless on where he hit.

He's a much stronger selection as a catcher, as arguably the greatest
hitter ever at that position. As a first baseman, he might still be a
viable candidate, but his career numbers don't begin to approach the
likes of a Gehrig or a Musial.


Yeah - that would be sad - ROFL!

There
have been other first basemen who've hit like Piazza. As a catcher,
he was unique.


As the second coming of Stan the Man he'd had been unique and MORE
valuable.


Not too many, and if he wasn't catching he'd have likey been better.

That's speculative at best. He certainly didn't hit any better after
he switched positions.


It was too late the game for that. His knees were all but shot.


That's
what made Mike Piazza so special as a player -- it would be damned
near impossible to find another player this side of Joe Mauer who
could reproduce what he did behind the plate.

What sucked about Piazza was that we lost 3 or 4 extra years of 145+
OPS seasons, and maybe a thousand at bats within the seasons he did
play, because he couldn't be moved from behind the plate.

Whether he should have been catching is a different argument, and one
that's ultimately irrelevant to this issue.

Not at all, it is essential to the issue.

No, it's not, and I'm not going off on that tangent, so save your
breath.

While he was
catching, he was an extremely valuable commodity, and the fact that he
was such an extraordinarily good hitter for that position
unquestionably enhanced his value.

Unquestionably? Hardly. I'm certain that if Piazza had been at 1st
base instead of catcher he would have had multiple more seasons hitting
360, 40, 620 slugging.



Yes - Unquestionable. He'd have nearly 600 HRs, a lifetime 630 slugging
and had created hundreds of more runs. In fact, he'd likely still be
playing where is value as a player at the moment is zero. Do you think
moving Joe Torre was a good move?



You're just pulling stuff out of thin air now. I'm not interested in
speculation about what Piazza might have done as a first baseman in some
alternate reality. The actual numbers that he did put up were worth
more coming from a catcher than they'd be worth coming from a first
baseman, and that's what positional value is all about. I realize
that you still don't get the concept and that you probably never will,
so I'm done talking about it.

Its not pulling numbers out of the sky to know that Piazza had a typical
career curve for a catcher and as a 1st baseman he'd had almost
definitely had a longer career.

Ruben
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Yeah......Right!!!
    ... the ability to replace a player at that particular position -- good ... hitting catchers are harder to find than good hitting first baseman, ... the best catcher in the game might not be a better hitter than the ... moved Piazza to first base, ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Yeah......Right!!!
    ... He's a much stronger selection as a catcher, ... hitter ever at that position. ... For Torre, it probably was, at least for awhile. ... Eddie Matthews at third base than with Torre as a first baseman and ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Yeah......Right!!!
    ... the ability to replace a player at that particular position -- good ... the best catcher in the game might not be a better hitter than the ... OPS + hitter is more valuable that and SS even a great SS and harder to ... As we saw with Mike Piazza, ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Mets will lose first round pick
    ... >>>realatively cheap backup catcher to replace Piazza and try Castro as ... > What do you think is the Mets best option for the catching position next ... re-sign Piazza for another year, and have him split time with Castro, much ... 6,500 innings caught, and I believe the "magic number" for innings caught ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Batting Splits Hernandez vs Molina
    ... Piazza was signed at the same age and he did pretty well ... > Hall of Fame catcher. ... The year before the Mets ... He did pretty well last year while he was a backup catcher, ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)