Re: IS Jose Reyes a poor fielder

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 13:51:15 -0800 (PST), jonathan <jmerin77@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Dec 3, 3:07?pm, Ruben <ru...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I've seen things like this before but I've largely thought it just
impossible

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Infielders

Luis Castillo, -8
Carlos Delgado, -3
Argenis Reyes, +5
Jose Reyes, -5
David Wright, +2

Again, few surprises. The rating for Jose Reyes is not an aberration; he
consistently ranks below average in defensive valuations. CHONE has him
around a half-win liability with the glove. Hanley Ramirez is -11 and
Derek Jeter is -13, so it could be worse. Carlos Delgado actually isn't
quite as bad as I expected. The 2008 numbers I had seen were actually
quite favorable, though he has historically shown awful range at first.

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2008/10/28/648056/2009-mets-chone-defensive

So - I find it hard to believe that Reyes is a below average fielder. ?My
eyes tell me he is the glue to the infliend when he's playing and when he
isn't the defense really suffers on the whole diamond.

Is he over rated by me as a defender?

Ruben


In all honesty, you can't use any one metric.

For example, if you look at the fielding bible, it shows you that
Reyes had the 7th best +/- in baseball from 2006-2008. Incidentally,
Jeter is dead last in that period by a wide margin over Hanley
Ramirez.

The trick to evaluating defense is to look at all of the numbers. The
guys who are really good (Adam Everett, Jack Wilson, etc.) tend to
show up at the top or near the top of everything. The guys who are
really bad (Jeter, Ramirez, etc.) tend to show up at the bottom of all
of the difference metrics. Throw out fielding percentage and errors
because they mean very little. Take zone rating, take CHONE, take the
fielding bible (John Dewan), and compare them. Some guys like Reyes
will vary, and I tend to think those are the relative middle of the
pack guys. Reyes has a bigtime arm, but otherwise I think his range
is generally unremarkable. I think the reason he looks better in the
context of the Mets is that the guys Omar has gotten for backup
shortstops (Easley, Cora, etc.) have been below average.

I don't think any metric can adequately evaluate defender's ability.
For example in baseball we give more weight to extra-base hits and
especially HRs. However, in any defensive metric today there's no
added weight for defenders' ability to consistent make tough plays,
incredible range, and other plays that only a handful of defenders can
make. Also strength of arms is not taken into consideration. A
strong arm SS like Reyes saves a few infield hits a year, that also
should be weighted more than a regular routine play.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Wright, Beltran win Gold Gloves
    ... Miguel Cabrera at first, Wright at 2nd, Reyes SS, A-Rod at 3rd. ... That would be a difficult team to beat, regardless of the defense. ... allstar team. ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Re-evaluating Reyes for Santana
    ... and are in the class of Reyes based on his performance last season. ... Win Shares, in particular, takes defense ... A trade of Reyes for Santana straight up would depend on several ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Wright, Beltran win Gold Gloves
    ... or I've been vastly overrating Ryan Zimmerman's defense. ... Well that settles it. ... Rodriguez to SS and Reyes to 2B. ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: IS Jose Reyes a poor fielder
    ... Argenis Reyes, +5 ... The rating for Jose Reyes is not an aberration; ... Carlos Delgado actually isn't ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)