Re: Time for a new dentist!

On Sat, 24 May 2008 16:07:21 -0400, Micheal Ray wrote:


I don't know how you can talk about infrastructure needs when there's a
religious-based civil war taking place.



We did it in Brooklyn.

You have 150,000 troops sitting in Badgag awaiting orders, and getting
shot at. The troops should be redeployed to the boarders

The borders? These are Iraqis shooting at other Iraqis.


Being armed from outside.


and to the Oil
sites and pipe lines to secure them. Then a Western Civillian Police
force needs to be brought in, at about 100,000 professional cops,

Right. Because what a Muslim nation in the Middle East needs is a group of
armed westerners with guns, telling them what to do and how to do it.


That is correct. And if we don't take this on, we will end up blowing up
this planet, with NY first on the list.



to
police the streets and disarm the country, applying the law and
training an Iraqi police force.

A police force is pretty much irrelevant in a civil war.


Wrong


As policing increases, Schools, Server and
Electrical Services need to be rebuilt with American money, creating
real employment. Then a housing constuction boom can start, with a
rebuilding of schools with imported teachers and with co-oversite of
the Iraqi elected government.

Elected government?

Right


You've got one group of Muslims trying to
exterminate another group,

No. Thats what happened in Rwanda, but it is not what is happening in
Iraq.

A police force
and you're talking about construction booms
and elected governments.



It will take time, but it should be apearent that this is what is going
to be needed to aquire a positive outcome in the region.

The "positive outcome" arrives when you convince one religious faction
to stop killing the other. And that doesn't happen by the use of
military force.


Correct. It takes broad disarmament, professional policing, rule of law,
educational developement and time.




Certainly, if it were crucial to our
survival here in America, we'd have a draft and we'd throw
400,000-700,000 troops at it, right?

Wrong. Simply throwing more troops into the situation without a
rebuilding plan works against our national and world interests in Iraq.


How do rebuilding plans work during the course of someone else's civil
war?


Your not getting it, are you. Is it that your afraid to admit that a
civil war sitting on 75 trillion dollars worth of oil fields affects world
stability or a general dislike of Arabs in general that make you believe
their lives are worthless?


The war DID end.

_Our_ war against Saddam's government ended.

That is right. That was the war.

What's happening now is a
civil war in their country.


Which shouldn't have been allowed to happen, IMO. The blood letting has
been somewhat controlled, and hopefully the Iraqi's are tiring of it.
But it is our job to help them see their way to a peaceful resolution of
their problems and to rebuild the civil society that was destroyed by the
Hussien brutality, feeding radicalism, religious fundementalism, and
ignorance.

What has happened is that it hasn't been followed by
peace.

Really?



There was an open decision by Conservative Theologians in the
White House to not to invest in rebuilding.

So, an investment in rebuilding by Washington would have superceded
centuries of religious hostilities between warring factions and tribal
leaders?


Yeah it would have fostered tolerance, and given individuals a stake in
peaceful coexistence rather than feed random hatreds and allow Iran to
slowly arm an insurgency over the boarders.

And its going take time. And it is essential to our security, and is the
first step to disprupting the regional anachy and extremism which results
in attacks like the destruction of the Twin Towers.



A successful outcome in Iraq
and Afganistan is going to require the best of both political thinkers
on the Left and the Right to work together to forge a clear eyed
practicle solution to not only Iraq, but the entire region, in which
Iraq is the cornerstone of success.

And what if the solution from the natives can be summarized as, "Get the
*** out of our country"?


Well so far that hasn't been the case, but if leaving the country means
leaving homicidial and genocidal maniacs in change then the answer is
"Sorry and hand over your guns, and BTW, you kid is late for school".

The days of non-interference, which was always BS in the first place, is
over. No part of this world any longer is ignorable. Wars in one part
of the world cook up sources of hatred and destruction around the globe.


But, we're not doing that. And
we're not doing that because this is more about politics and commerce
than safety and survival.

Politics and Commerce are two of three essential threads of our
survival.


Politics and commerce _in Iraq_ have nothing to do with our survival.


Your wrong. You were wrong before 9-11, after 9-11, before WWII and wrong
now. Get it through your thick head. If you don't, you'll never be
part of the solution to the general misserable conditions across this
world will come back and destroy the civilization that you think can best
be protected by turning your back on the rest of the planet.

The globe is QUICKLY converging into a single diverse community of
civilization. Nuclear weapons are spreading, as is biological
warfare, terroism, and rocket propulsion technology. Strick
short sited nationalistic considerations are going to have to be set aside
for a greater transformation of world culture. The world is going to need
representitive Government, accountability and tolerance. We are going to
have to become directly involved in a lot of points in the world in order
to transform hostile societies if we are to survive over the coming era of
global communications, and commerce. And only the US and the EU can usher
in this tranformation in any way which is peaceful, peaceful being defined
as not a nuclear driven war, and genocidal conflagnation of humanity
attacking itself on nearly every corner of this globe. I know you want to
build a wall around the US, but castles haven't been affective at keeping
security for a few hundred years. And they never did much for Justice and
Peace.

Ruben

--
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So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998

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"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I guess you missed that one."

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