Re: Options to replace Benson as #3 starter?
- From: "jonathan" <jonathan.merin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 22 Jan 2006 17:19:20 -0800
Super T wrote:
> >Honestly, I've always had a problem with this #2, #3, #4, #5 thing. I
> >think there's definitely something to be said for the idea of a #1
> >starter, a guy who you expect to end losing streaks and be a leader on
> >your pitching staff. After that, I think it becomes a little bit of a
> >mish-mash. Ultimately, you try to get the best 5 starting pitchers you
> >can . . . without necessarily paying attention to the slotting. What
> >is a #3 starter? If it's Kris Benson, then it's a league average
> >pitcher. So does that mean that #4 and #5 starters are below average
> >pitchers? It's something that I've never quite been able to answer.
> Agreed, but when you get into matchups between two teams, I know the
> first thing that I look at in deciding who has the advantage is the
> pitching matchup. And even being a league average #3 pitcher, KB was
> better (IMHO), than what most other teams offered in the #3 pitchers
> position. If you do look at most of todays teams depth charts, their
> slotted #4 & #5 guys are in fact below average pitchers.
> >Some pitchers are clearly #1 starting pitchers. Pedro obviously comes
> >to mind immediately as a guy who is a #1 today. After that . . . what
> >was Sid Fernandez? Was he a #2 guy? Was he a #4 guy (where he was
> >often slotted in a talented Mets rotation)? I don't know. It's
> >something I've never liked because it's incredibly arbitrary. As for
> >Benson, I agree with you and on the surface I don't think they got
> Yesterday, I was on the fence if this deal was made to trigger another
> deal. Today, my feeling is that is not the case and the timing of this
> salary dump is kind of upsetting.
I don't get it. As much as I may have disagreed with some of Omar's
moves to this point (Lo Duca), at least I understood them. This deal
makes zero sense to me. I think we have to wait and see. The only
thing I can think of is that he's been over budget, known he needed to
get down under budget, and was waiting and waiting to see who could be
dumped and this was the best option. Obviously I hope that isn't the
case, but it's the only thing I can come up with.
> >I like Sanchez . . . but the guy I really like is Schmoll. Guys who
> >throw in the mid 90's from a submarine angle don't grow on trees.
> >Sometimes those submariners develop later since what they're doing is
> >so unorthodox. Jeff Innis was an extremely effective reliever for the
> >Mets for a few years there, and the reports are Schmoll comes from down
> >there but much harder. That's intriguing to me. He's still only 25.
> Don't know much about Schmoll but from his past stats it looks like
> another fix-it project for Peterson.
> >If you look at both deals, Omar traded two middle aged, mediocre
> >pitchers for four young (24-26) hard throwers. Now, young guys who
> >throw hard are definitely not sure things . . . but they do have
> >potential. The Orioles have done a terrible job developing pitchers in
> >the last few years. I'm one of the people around here who has a
> >tremenous respect for the abilities of Rick Peterson. The collective
> >records of Mulder, Hudson, and Zito speak for themselves regarding his
> >influence. He can't teach a guy to throw 95 . . . but if the kid
> >throws 95, he can teach him how to harness that and to have a plan and
> >get major league hitters out.
> But the *two* deals also took away the depth of the starting staff.
> That has always been the one strong point the Mets have always had.
Yeah. I guess I just wonder what they were going to do with 6
starters. Did you want to see Zambrano in the bullpen? Released? AAA
(which wouldn't happen with his contract)? I think the only way you
have real starting rotation depth is by having guys in the minors. I'm
not surprised he traded Seo OR Benson . . . I just didn't think he'd
trade both . . . and I certainly didn't think he'd trade Benson for so
> >I don't believe in Heilman as a starter because I think his repertoire
> >is too limited and he's better suited as a short man. I'm very very
> >surprised, given Omar's history, that he does.
> Totally agree, talk about your 180's in thinking.
> >That being said, the
> >2007 Mets should dramatically outscore the 2006 Mets. They also now
> >have the second best closer in the game and a bullpen that is loaded
> >with options. Omar may be thinking, let's start the season with what
> >we have (Soler, Heilman, Bannister, et al) at the end of the rotation
> >and if it's not working out, I have the financial flexibility in June
> >to go get somebody. I also wouldn't rule out a Spring Training deal.
> Where was this thinking when he was making all his wheelin and dealin a
> couple of months back. It's like this thinkin just came out of LF.
Again, I wonder if he's been over budget all of this time . . . and was
just running out of time to 'fix' it.
> >I actually very rarely worry about the pitching. If you look at Mets
> >history, they find pitchers. Between the ballpark and certain other
> >factors, pitching rarely seems to be a problem. I worry about offense.
> > I think the key to this team is that Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado
> >have average years, that David Wright continues to be David Wright, and
> >that Jose Reyes adds 30-40 points to that OBP. If those three things
> >happen, I think this team scores 800 runs. If this team scores 800
> >runs, it will win 95+ games, which I think will make the playoffs, and
> >possibly even win this division, given the state of the Phillies and
> Totally agree again, but my concern is that OM is starting to take the
> teams rock (starting pitching) for granted, for the benefit of the
> bullpen and the offense.
> Super T
> Sent via Baseball Newsgroups
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