Re: What the Mets should do for 2006


mrbrklyn wrote:
> <<That's 100% your opinion. You haven't presented a SINGLE fact other
> then ERA that supports what you're saying, while I have presented many
> many facts that support mine. >>
>
> No, that's the statistical facts and I don't need to repost
> baseball-reference for you. Your very smart and perfectly capable of
> looking for yourself. And there is NOTHING as important as ERA when
> discussing pitching, especially starting pitching.

Again, many many articles have been written that prove you are wrong.
It is YOUR opinion that ERA is the most important stat in evaluating
starting pitching. Your opinion is incorrect.

>
> After all the minor league and major league innings Seo did, there is
> no reason to believe he is not going to pitch innings at a miniimum as
> equal to Zito, with more complete games. Randolf was finally
> stretching him out at the end of the season to good results.

Oh, he might pitch as many innings, they just won't be as good. See,
that's what all of the Major and Minor league innings Seo has pitched
to this point say. Are you saying you'd rather have a pitcher throw 9
ok innings then 7 good ones? I'll take the 7 good ones.

>
> There is no merit to your aquasation that the list of pitchers were
> somehow young pitchers throwing "too many innings". Gooden's decline
> was because he threw too many innings when he was young? And the same
> with Dizzy Dean? Your off your rocker. Should we start listing hall
> of fame pitchers with threw over 250+ innings for a decade or more?

Dizzy Dean got hit by a linedrive in the All Star game which broke his
toe. Instead of staying hurt, he pitched through it. Overcompensating
for this caused him to mess up his delivery and hurt his arm. This is
well documented. He didn't just lose his stuff. He got hurt. Gooden
threw 764 2/3 professional innings by the age of 21. Davey Johnson and
Mel Stottlemyre abused him, plain and simple. Everybody saw that by
1986 he had basically lost the electricity off of his fastball.
Valenzuela threw 682 by the same age, and then threw 286! as a 21 year
old.

But see Ruben . . . I know what you're thinking . . . so here are your
Hall of Famers:

At the SAME age by which Gooden and Valenzuela had already thrown 700
or so professional innings . . .

Seaver - 0
Ryan - 290
Bob Gibson didn't throw 200 IP in the majors until he was 25. I don't
have his minor league stats but clearly he spent two years pitching
long relief and sitting before he became a full time starter.
Don Sutton - 249
Jim Bunning is almost the exact same case as Gibson.
Steve Carlton - 203
Ferguson Jenkins - 424
Gaylord Perry - 319

Seeing a pattern? By not being ABUSED at a young age, these pitchers
went on to have the long careers you're alluding to. The list keeps
going. I just have to go to work so I don't have time to keep listing
Hall of Famers. Oh, and don't even give me Bob Feller or Walter
Johnson or somebody like that. That was 60 or more years ago. To even
compare the game 60 years ago to the game today is a little bit
ridiculous in terms of how pitchers are used, treated, and raised.
It's apples and oranges.

To end though . . . here are a couple more for you:

Clemens - 81
Maddux - 493.3 (the closest to the abuse of Valenzuela and Gooden . . .
and still 200IP off)
Randy Johnson - 0
Johan Santana - 334
Pedro Martinez - 522 2/3 (signed as a 16! year old - never pitched more
then 180 IP in any of these seasons and didn't even top 100 IP until he
was 19 or 200IP until he was 24)



>
> Ruben

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: What the Mets should do for 2006
    ... then ERA that supports what you're saying, ... that's the statistical facts and I don't need to repost ... After all the minor league and major league innings Seo did, ... There is no merit to your aquasation that the list of pitchers were ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Twins
    ... Johan Santana pitched 86 innings his rookie year to ... the tune of a 6.49 ERA. ... in his third year he was the Santana we know. ... Pitchers develop at very different rates. ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Twins
    ... Johan Santana pitched 86 innings his rookie year to ... the tune of a 6.49 ERA. ... in his third year he was the Santana we know. ... Pitchers develop at very different rates. ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Twins
    ... Johan Santana pitched 86 innings his rookie year to ... the tune of a 6.49 ERA. ... in his third year he was the Santana we know. ... Pitchers develop at very different rates. ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)
  • Re: Twins
    ... Johan Santana pitched 86 innings his rookie year to ... the tune of a 6.49 ERA. ... in his third year he was the Santana we know. ... Pitchers develop at very different rates. ...
    (alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets)