Re: Willie or Jacoby, who was the better fielder
- From: McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:50:02 -0500
On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 04:38:37 -0800 (PST), Wayback1918
On Feb 5, 8:58 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Willie Mays has a great reputation as an outfielder. One of the best
of all time, we are told. I've seen that grainy film of his catch of
the drive by Vic Wertz, and boy, that seemed like one great catch. And
the throw to get a double play may have been even better.
Of course, I've also seen some nifty plays by Jacoby Ellsbury. Maybe
not like the famous Mays play, but that play required that huge CF in
the Polo Grounds.
So we have to go to stats. But we don't have "new" stats for Mays, and
no way to recreate them, as we have done for some stats, like OBP.
Under the old stats (Fielding percentage and range), looking only at
2008 and 2009 for Jacoby and 1955 and 1956 for Mays (when both were
24, 25), we get the following:
Jacoby Fielding % Range
2008 1.000 2.40
2009 .995 2.37
1955 .982 2.83
1956 .979 2.82
I always put more emphasis on range over FP, so I guess I have to go
with Mays, although I wish there were a good way to adjust range for
the ball park.
So, how about Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, and Franklin Gutierrez at
2000 .989 2.85
2001 .992 3.22
2007 .995 2.52
2008 .995 2.54
2007 .994 1.65
2008 .989 2.29
Pretty clear that Franklin is the worse of the six under the old stats
and Torii is the best.
Very good post McDuck
In fairness to Gutierrez he played RF for the two years you use.
I like Range Factor as a stat. It does take some extra work to
compare players......especially between players of different
For example the 1955 Giants pitching staff struck out 12.1% of all the
batters they faced......Ellsbury's 2008 Red Sox struck out 19.2% of
their opponents. I think that comes out to about 2 extra chances per
game for the 9 fielders on the Giants team. (not sure of the math
The 1955 Giants pitchers had a GO/AO ratio of 1.01.......the 2008 Red
Sox were 1.05. I think that means about one more of the total
chances per game went to Giant outfielders as opposed to
Red Sox outfielders. (again not sure of the math)
Since we are talking CF the LHB/RHB split is not so important.
I don't know what you can do about the Park Factor.....
This underscores the beauty of the new defensive metrics which
neutralizes these differences.
Thanks for the neat comments. I was teasing with Gutierrez.
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