Re: OT: Cap and Trade and The Cooling Earth

On Jul 13, 3:48 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"John Vamp" <jvampate...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Jul 13, 1:03 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"John Vamp" <jvampate...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Jul 12, 8:55 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"John Vamp" <jvampate...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
I've seen lots of scenarios about what would happen if AGW was true.
Many things would change for the better. Bummer if you have a house
right on the coast, of course. But a real agricultural boon to the
northern US, Canada, Siberia....you know, HUGE tracts of land suddenly
open up to agricultural use. It's not at all certain that the earth
warming a few degrees would be devastating.

John

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change for the better?
depend on where you live.
th deserts are growing at an alarming pace and the best farmlands will
become arid wastelands.

And some places that now are not usable for agriculture will become
the breadbaskets of humanity. If this dramatic climate change were to
occur, humans and animals would migrate and adapt. Isn't that pretty
much the lesson of evolutionary biology?

John

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will they? willGreenland and the tundra prove fertile?
warmer temps won't make such places bread baskets.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,434356,00.html

Opening of that story:  "Known for its massive ice sheets, Greenland
is feeling the effects of global warming as rising temperatures have
expanded the island's growing season and crops are flourishing. For
the first time in hundreds of years, it has become possible to raise
cattle and start dairy farms."

So yes, global warming would greatly increase Greenland's ability to
produce crops.

and the amount of land lost to production won't be replaced by an equal
amount of new land.

Cite?  Seems like a HUGE part of the earth - like northern Canada,
Greenland, and northern Russia (including Siberia) would be positively
impacted.  Fact is, you have no idea about this, Ray.

and what about the population? are we all to move to Canada?

Uh, Ray, seriously.  Have you taken just a second or two to think
about the incredibly diverse environments humans currently live in?
Deserts, mountains, tropical islands, rain forests, frozen north of
Sweden, Canada, and Russia....  Many would still probably live in the
warmer climates (warmer by a couple of degrees on average) and do what
they do now:  import food.  Others might move north (or south, if
they're in the southern hemisphere).  We might see some sort of human
migration, but - and here's what you might have a hard time believing
in your own little bizarro world - this has always been going on in
the entire history of civilization.  People migrate where opportunity
to live is better - whether that opportunity is based on food,
climate, jobs, security....you name it.  So maybe places like South
Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Washington, Idaho, Minnesota, Michigan,
and Maine will see a big increase in population - that's ok, they're
huge states and could handle it no problem.  Maybe places like the
coasts of Florida will see people move north.  But that would be a
problem.........why?

John

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and look how many people are starving in the equatorial regions. a billion
people are not getting enough

You think that the reason people are starving is that there's not
enough food? Read: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/aug/01/famine.jeevanvasagar

"

* News
* World news

Plenty of food - yet the poor are starving

The two faces of Niger

* Buzz up!
* Digg it

* Jeevan Vasagar in Tahoua, Niger
* The Guardian, Monday 1 August 2005 13.53 BST
* Article history

In Tahoua market, there is no sign that times are hard. Instead, there
are piles of red onions, bundles of glistening spinach, and pumpkins
sliced into orange shards. There are plastic bags of rice, pasta and
manioc flour, and the sound of butchers' knives whistling as they are
sharpened before hacking apart joints of goat and beef.

A few minutes' drive from the market, along muddy streets filled with
puddles of rainwater, there is the more familiar face of Niger. Under
canvas tents, aid workers coax babies with spidery limbs to take sips
of milk, or the smallest dabs of high-protein paste.

Wasted infants are wrapped in gold foil to keep them warm. There is
the sound of children wailing, or coughing in machine-gun bursts.

"I cannot afford to buy millet in the market, so I have no food, and
there is no milk to give my baby," says Fatou, a mother cradling her
son Alhassan. Though he is 12 months old he weighs just 3.3kg (around
7lbs).

Fatou, a slender, childlike young woman in a blue shawl, ate weeds to
survive before her baby was admitted to a treatment centre run by the
medical charity MSF.

This is the strange reality of Niger's hunger crisis. There is plenty
of food, but children are dying because their parents cannot afford to
buy it."

The problem, Ray, isn't the amount of food available...it's
economics. Or, as you put it, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. If you deprive
people of the ability to purchase food, they will starve. Global
warming policies like cap and trade take money from everybody who
lives in the country where such laws are passed. Gore's global
warming ideas will keep third-world countries down.

and you think rendering where they live
uninhabital is a good thing?

The desert is "uninhabitable" and yet people live there, Ray. Have
for millennia. You do realize that the climate has always changed,
right Ray? When the last ice age came, where did people who lived in
the north go? South! And when the glaciers retreated, where did
people go? North!!! Amazing how that works. If the earth indeed
gets "too hot", people will migrate north, where new vistas with lush
green grass await.

amazing john.

Yes, it truly is amazing that you think the way you do. Utterly
incomprehensible.

it gets 130 degrees in Africa and the middle east.

And people live and survive there. Have since the dawn of humanity.
And it gets unbelievably cold in the Himalayas...and people live and
survive there too. The human species is really amazing, Ray.

John
.

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