Re: OT Bail out
- From: "BBrain" <bbrain2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 09:40:08 -0500
"mario in victoria" <mario5491@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
"TomBoston191" <tomboston191@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
The Big Three are, from this point forward, to build only cars that
are not primarily dependent on oil and, more importantly to buildI love this idea. It was more fully explored in a recent NY Times op-
buses, subways and light rail (a corresponding public-works project
the country will build the rail lines and tracks). This will not only
jobs, but create millions of new ones.
The whole thing would be some serious karmic justice too.
Back in the 1930's practically every major city in our country had
extensive electric trolley service.
But then GM (and Standard Oil...) systematically bought up nearly all
of them and destroyed them in order to create a market for diesel
powered buses. 45+ cities had their transportation infrastructure
removed. LA for example, had an extensive trolley system...I bet they
wish they had it today.
Some cities like Boston and New York survived this insanity, but most
So now 80 years later, GM would have us believe that electric
transportation is this futuristic endeavor... I don't understand why
more people don't see through these charlatans' line of BS.
There are some good people in the transportation arena. Fred Salvucci
leaps to mind. But the man I'd like to see in charge of it all would
be Michael Dukakis. He'd be competent, passionate, dedicated, and
most of all would be the most antagonistic symbol imaginable to the
This is a great fantasy, but I suspect that if the government really
does make some hard-core demands, the industry will somehow magically
find a way to survive without any assistance.
Ford has already started to equivocate lately. My bet is that if push
comes to shove, the industry may just get some help from another
industry. Perhaps the one industry which lately has been experiencing
record shattering profits...
The auto execs thought they could easily just line up at the same
trough with the banks.
Nice try guys.
I think the Dukakis idea is a non starter. You need someone who will
fight to destroy the entrenched company bureaucracy and force the UAW to
face reality. Mike is a lot of things, but he is a bureaucrat/politician
at heart, and certainly as a liberal he is not about to take on the UAW.
On the other hand, the video below demonstrates that at least at Ford,
there are some managers in the auto industry already who can implement
the right kind of changes, but unfortunately not in the US. Is it really
the UAW that is preventing this? I doubt that they are the only obstacle.
Entrenched interests all up and down the management structure are just as
a big a problem as the UAW. I know from personal experience how hard it
is to change long standing traditional ways of doing things, even when
there are no unions to oppose them and some in management are in favor.
IMO you will have to shut down a large number of the US plants and start
over from scratch. The only way to force this is for the companies to be
allowed to go into Chapter 11 and be forced to think out of the box. I
know a lot of jobs will be lost, but throwing good money after bad just
postpones the inevitable. Let the economy take the hit now and get it
behind us. Examples of this are the steel, railroad and airline
industries. They have been through this already, and for the most part
(except for Amtrak I think) have managed to survive in a leaner but more
As far as electric cars, I don't know if they are viable or not, but you
can bet the oil industry and the auto makers will drag their heels unless
they are forced to take it seriously.Until that happens we won't know.
There are other alternatives as well including fuel cells, etc. That's
why taking the bailout money from the already approved funding for
developing alternative "green" technology is a bad idea.
I think that if they can produce an electric "city car," the range can be
beaten fairly soon, along with laying in the support structure for such
cars to 'refuel.' After all, what was the range of the original cars?
Where did they refuel and how often could they?
These are NOT insurmountable problems. GM had a the perfect electric car
for its day years ago...would it be so difficult to revive it?
They have not proven they can weather an economic storm, no matter whose
the problem. It recalls airlines crying about going under because they
were shut down for a while after 11-9. I thought then that if an industry
couldn't handle a temporary shutdown, they weren't worth it.
The auto industry brought it onto themselves. Give them enough guarantees
to retool, then cut them loose. Make them loans backed by assets. They
probably won't renege too readily on those.
mario in victoria
no corporate socialism unless...
The problem with rechargeable electric cars is that you have to generate the
electricity to power them. Right now that means using primarily fossil
fuels, which only add to the enviormental problem. That's why fuel cells
seem so attractive. Of course somehow you have to generate the hydrogen that
is required (at least with the current technologies that are being
proposed), so it isn't clear that even fuel cells are the ultimate answer.
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