Re: OT: oil profits

On Thu, 1 May 2008 19:18:02 -0400, "Fred Burton" <fburton@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:prbk14plfnr6d6cerla5k9i5jgf760s0j8@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:53:38 -0400, "Fred Burton" <fburton@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


"McDuck" <wallyDELETEMEMcDuck@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dvai14tr8o8kr4u17avq1cp9nqn8qu1avi@xxxxxxxxxx


First, just because the Fed Gov't is running deficits, does NOT mean that
you
have to raise taxes. That's the liberal mantra. There IS another
solution.

CUT SPENDING!!!!


Of course, one COULD cut spending to balance the budget. Bush and the
Conservatives chose not to do that, preferring an expensive war and a
wasteful farm program that is promoting poverty around the world. But
I agree, and any rational person would agree, that cutting spending is
certainly one possible way to balance the budget. Nothing to do with
Liberal or Conservative.

The decision to fight a war should not be based on whether you have to
increase spending or not. You do it because it's necessary, not because
you can afford to do it.

I guess I miss your point. If you are saying that a decision to go to
war should be based on matters more important than cutting taxes on
the rich, I agree. I'll leave aside whether the war in Iraq was a
sensible war whatever the price. I am not arguing for or against the
war based on the price, although a in evaluating a "discretionary"
war, the price certainly matters. The point here is that a war,
whether good or bad, has to be paid for and will be paid for. If taxes
are not raised to pay for it, then it will be paid with borrowed
money, and then taxes will have to be raised later to pay off the
debt.


If you're going to bash bush about spending, it should be on that bogus
prescription drug benefit. Just another pile of money pissed down a
rathole.


I was not bashing Bush --- just noting that he chose not to cut
spending but instead increased spending on his favored programs.

A "rathole"? Helping people pay for costly medicines is throwing money
down a rathole? Fine to oppose the Medicare D program --- lots to
debate about how to deal with the artificially high drug costs in the
US. But helping people in need is not "throwing" or "pissing" money
down a rathole.

Now, if you want to argue that the Iraq war was "pissing money down a
rathole," you at least would have your metaphors in order. The point
of that reference is that the money didn't buy anything of value. I'll
not argue here whether the war in Iraq produced anything of value or
whether, like the Vietnam War, it was money down the rathole. But the
transfer payments involved in Medicare D certainly do not fit the
metaphor since the persons receiving the medical subsidies certainly
got a benefit, even if the benefit is one you would not want them to
get.


As far as the "wasteful farm program", I'm not exactly sure what you mean.
If you're refering to promoting ethanol, I agree with you. And I predicted
that pushing Ethanol would produce this result a decade ago. It was obvious
for anyone who would look at the secondary effects of a decision.

Transferring farm acreage from producing food to non-food crops would only
decrease the supply of whatever was being grown, which in turn would
increase
the cost of whatever was left of those food crops.

Yes, I was complaining about the Federal subsidies for ethanol. But
I'm also critical of some other farm subsidies as well, which were
increased by Bush after years of decline --- and in violation of our
trade agreement.

<snip>



Do you know what theft is? I ask, because, by definition, a lawful tax
cannot be theft. And a tax in this county, whether progressive or
regressive, is not by "fiat" --- it is through representative
government --- the form of taxation that the Revolutionary War was
fought to ensure.

Let me translate for you...

Taxation ... Theft by Legislation ... aka taking something that is not yours
by force (i.e. the force of law and the threat of imprisonment).... and when
that taxation treats one class of people differently than another class
based
on economic status, it amounts to nothing more than economic descrimination.


Taxes take, period. By definition, a tax is a forced exaction. But the
taking does not constitute theft by any sensible definition. Whether
the tax falls proportionally or progressively, or regressively, it
still involves taking of something that the individual has some claim
to. Obviously no one has an absolute claim to their earnings, just as
no one has an absolute right to use their property any way they
choose. People earn income subject to their obligation to pay their
taxes on that income.

If I ran a country fair and charged people who exhibited and sold
stuff at my fair a percentage of the income earned at the fair, it
would not be theft. It would not be theft if I charged those making
big profits at a higher rate than those earning lower profits. Indeed,
I really did not "take" anything from anyone --- well, I took, but I
only took that to which I had a prior claim. Paying my fee was what
the exhibitors agreed to do to be allowed to sell at my fair.

Same with the government when it charges a "fee" for participating in
the economy. You earn income in a country subject to the prior claim
of the people (through their government) to a share of the income you
earn from making use of the markets and infrastructure and other
income-producing opportunities. If I charge too much at my fair, then
people who don't want to pay don't have to --- they can go somewhere
else to sell their goods. Similarly, if rich people are not happy
paying the "fee" charged by the people for use of the US market, they
can avoid paying it by giving up their citizenship and earning their
income somewhere else. Citizenship involves certain obligations, one
of which is to pay the taxes lawfully imposed whether or not you like
paying them.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: oil profits
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