Re: I. . . I just couldn't do it!!! :_(

On Mar 5, 12:11 pm, McDuck <wallyDELETEMEMcD...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 08:32:44 -0800 (PST), john.vampate...@xxxxxxxxx
wrote:

On Mar 5, 11:04 am, "Ray O'Hara" <mary.palmu...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

lets say you invest it and some scoundral embezzles all the money, you'd be
the first pewrson screaming for relief.

Actually, I wouldn't.  I actually take responsibility for my actions.
If I screw it up, I screw it up.  There are lots of really safe
investment vehicles - like an FDIC insured certificate of deposit (you
know what FDIC insured means, right?  that your money is guaranteed to
be safe) - that give you twice the interest rate that Social Security
does.

I see. You like government programs (FDIC) from the Great Depression
days that prevent bank depositors from losing their savings to
irresponsible or unlucky banks but you don't like government programs
that prevent people with no assets from starving.

But, as I noted in my prior post, SS does NOT give you ANY interest
rate. It is not an investment program. It is a transfer program, from
one generation to the prior generation.



But even if your view is right...all that means is that the government
feels responsible for making choices for people.  That sounds a lot
less like freedom and a lot more like forms of government
that...well...aren't too good.

Really? Think back to 1938. Your grandparents are totally broke after
the longest and hardest depression in American history. And now they
are too old to work. And here comes that big bad FDR government coming
in and making choices for them --- offering them a decent life in
retirement. But your freedom-loving grandparent rebel --- they want
the freedom to starve, etc. Really?

No, John. A government that ensures the basic economic needs of the
people increases choices. Money gives choices. If you have no money,
you really have very few choices in our society.

You start with a false premise --- that people have this pot of money
and can invest it wisely (in good private-sector funds or
government-guaranteed funds) , spend it on the high life, or invest it
foolishly (or become the victims private-sector theives). Well, the
"pot" you are thinking about is already committed. You can't invest
your pot of money (so to speak) and still pay the SS pensions of the
retiring generation, in accordance with the promise made in 1938. So,
when you talk about a pot of money to invest, you are first talking
about stiffing the generation that supported your grandparents.

I don't disagree, McDuck. I totally understand that my social
security payments aren't for me, they're for current retirees. But
the system, by virtue of how they designed it in the first place,
makes it impossible to break out of, for the very reason you cite here
at the end. But the system is going to fail at some point, there's
very little doubt about that, unless a major overhaul or massive tax
increases, or reduction of benefits to retirees happens. It's an
unsupportable system.

I acually was very upset at the Bush administration when they
inherited major surpluses from Clinton, because I thought, now is the
chance to fix social security once and for all. The money is
available to honor the SS commitments made to retirees while allowing
people who wish to opt out to do so. If others want to stay in, then
they get the security of the government-backed system, and their money
that goes in really does go into an account for them - not for their
parents or grandparents.

But Bush bungled it (not surprisingly) and not only is SS a mess, but
now we have massive deficits.

John
.

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