Re: More on Why ASP Sucks Now

Corneel Vermeulen wrote:
Thus spake Briarroot:
Ed Anderson wrote:

I post in another moderated forum and don't find it quite as limiting as
you seem to.
Heh. How can you tell? ;-)

Individual preferences?

Unless one is the moderator, there isn't any way of knowing what posts and topic have been rejected and therefore how ultimately "limiting" the forum becomes.


In my opinion, threads like this one serve absolutely no purpose but to
further damage already strained relations.
I'm sorry, I totally and emphaticaly diagree with the above statement.
How many times have we discussed the subject of "what ASP is," "what it
used to be," and "what it should be?" In my memory, this topic reared its
ugly head about twice a year in the 2000-2001 time frame. Lately it seems
to appear about twice a month!

Should tell you something, at least. It's a sign, which can mean different
things, but as a common denominator it seems to be there's something about
ASP that doesn't go down well.

It tells me that some people never learn; that experience is forgotten; that the low road often looks easier than the high road, etc.


But what have been the results?

People always end up saying that (1) it's usenet. (2) it's free.
(3) it's about the smokers, not the pipes.

Thus trying to maintain a status quo. So ...

I don't understand what you're saying here. There clearly have never been *any* results. These threads have never improved anything, nor persuaded any poster to change his ways. (At least, I have seen no evidence for the latter assertion, but for the former, evidence *abounds*)


*Nothing* has changed and nothing ever will change because ASP is
*already* exactly what its posters make it.

With usually the one making complaints leaving altogether shortly
afterwards, or generally posting less and less. Or lose interest in the
newsgroup and participating in it.

Not "usually" at all. The complainers remain, and those that *do* leave almost always come back. The real loss (if indeed, it can be described as a loss - I'll leave it to each individual to evaluate this one) is from those who leave without a word and never return. We get no data from them, pro or con.


It actually gets to the point that when someone actually does post again,
it's A Big Event backchannel. (This happened very recently. I'm sure most
still know what I'm talking about).

I'm one who doesn't know. I don't do backchannel.


Individual complaints are precisely useless except that they stir up
resentments in the minds of those who feel they are the targets of the
complaints.

They are not useless, as they serve as a way to vent. Get something off your
chest. Heck, last week it took me about 20 seconds to read the 150 new posts
of the day. It's good that someone points that out to everybody else once in
a while, even if it's only to make themselves feel better.

Arguments like saying that ...

Making themselves feel better by making their fellows feel worse is not an argument I would place in the 'pro' column. I think you just made my point for me!


Such resentments build up until the next large scale disagreement begins to boils over, and then: *whoosh* a flame war ensues and everybody gets burnt.

Don't quite cut it, IMHO. It's a bubble waiting to burst. Better to let off
some steam in a meta-discussion than wait for some silly thing to occur to
which will be responded in an unproportional way. Then you'd be sitting on a
virtual timebomb, waiting to explode.

That's an individual's personal responsibility. One's behavior in a public forum is just as much a personal choice as one's behavior is in a public place. Self control is evidently a virtue that has largely been forgotten. I mourn it's loss.


At least now it's canalized in these threads, so if something would happen,
you know which threads to ignore <g>

Heh, true! ;-)


I repeat: meta-discussions on the nature of ASP are pointless!

Again: They are not. I see it as a polite way to ask to leave the on topic
threads alone (no threadjacks of sillyness or off topic ramblings or
personal chitchat).

Me: "Oh yes, they are!"
You: "Oh no, they're not!"
Me: "Are so!"
You: "Are not!"

We certainly have *that* question resolved, don't we? ;-)


I really don't see what's wrong with that. It's only a question. Usenet
might be free, but that's not an excuse to behave like an ass.

I wasn't actually talking about asinine behavior; I agree, that's out of bounds. My remarks in this thread concern only the complaints about "What ASP should be."

Regards,

Tim Parker ... Samarra in a Peterson system 309
.

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