Re: Am I too impatient?

Ian Rastall <idrastall@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Planetary wrote:
We shouldn't have any reticence to identify the real issues, rather than
hiding behind a shield of coolness.

I don't know, Jason. I just realized that I was countering what you
had to say because your reply was so loud in tone. I guess I'm more
interested in why you're being so vehement ... that's the real issue
on this end. I would be happy if we had a policy of not outing people,
and I would be happy if we outed lousy vendors. Either way.

Fair enough, Ian.

Here's my short answer: ASP needs to make a decision about what it is: a
gentleman's club where we money and [AD]s and all manner of unsavory
topics are beneath contempt, or a group of hobbyists from all over the
industry free to speak their minds and exchange information. Choose.

Here's my longer answer:

I've never had a genuinely poor experience with any of the vendors
recommended by ASP, and I have no specific agenda.

It just really rubs me the wrong way to hear people say that it's uncool
to state facts, or ask questions, about specific companies which are
directly related to the hobby we're all here to share.

Here's why. For some reason, it's ok to say that you didn't like a
certain pipe, or that an entire pipe brand sucks, or that you can't stand
a given tobacco. ...But at the same time it's not ok to say that you had
a poor buying experience with a given vendor. Why not, I wonder? Why the
double-standard? Why are criticisms of producers *expected*, but
criticisms of *vendors* considered social transgressions?

I suspect it has to do with the people who are on ASP which are trying to
use ASP to build thier business. Disclaimer: I have *zero* problem with
such enterpreneurs, and I wish everyone the best. Similarly, I have
*zero* interest in seeing ASP turn into a blind vendor bitching forum.

But there's a middle ground where it should be ENCOURAGED for people to
share their experiences with all aspects -- producers, vendors,
techniques, experiences -- of the hobby.

We should expect every company to have snags once in a while. It's
unavoidable, and many of them might even be the customer's fault! Threads
which help get the customer's problem solved often help BUILD better
relationships between the people in our hobby who offer products and
services and those who seek to obtain them. This is a natural good which
we should embrace.

Think about the phrases we use. "Outing a vendor." We can only "out" a
vendor if there's something to be outed. We're not talking about anything
personal, but shining a light on the fact that a given vendor has a real
business problem. Now, in what kind of pipe discussion forum can this be
construed as bad or uncool information for participants to share?
Answer: a forum with a bunch of people who are trying to tell everyone
else that something other than a fair and open market should determine who
knows what's really going on with companies. We have descriptors for
tactics like that, my friends, and "fair market" and "honest" are not
among them.

If you want to compete, if you want to be in business, you should be
prepared to be compared and scrutinized by your customers. Is this
uncool, unsavory, or ungentlemanly? No, it's not. The minute money is
changing hands, it's business. And the sooner that you, as the
businessperson, hear that you have problems to solve, the greater your
opportunity to do the right thing and build lasting customer
relationships. And the sooner that we, as the consumers, hear both fair
praise and fair criticism, the more informed we'll be to make the best
buying decisions possible.

The real question before us is whether all these topics of business are
appropriate for ASP, or not. If we're willing to let people post their
[AD]s here, and benefit from the community, then we must embrace the fact
that the community is able to freely participate in the market, as well.
And I don't mean some kind of Orwellian half-baked participation where the
forum is full of endless threads of praise and narry a critique to be
found.

-Jason
.

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