Re: Mostly for Tony

On 4/24/2011 7:42 AM, CigarBaron wrote:
On Apr 22, 8:57 am, Bart Goddard<goddar...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
CigarBaron<garbaron...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote innews:65f55d99-2a87-47b4-a9ab-69ba427c2622@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

On Apr 20, 7:25 pm, Bart Goddard<goddar...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
CigarBaron<garbaron...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in

According to the law that Jesus followed (the old testament) a baby
who dies less than 30 days old does not need a funeral.


Old Testament somewhere.

Possibly, but I remain (highly) doubtful. For one thing, I
can't recall anywhere in the OT where funerals are proscribed
for anyone. So why would there be a rule saying that
less-than-30-day infants "don't need" a funeral, when
there's no rule that says adults "need" a funeral.

Maybe you can come up with something, but my best guess
is that you're citing some non-OT "talmudic" or
"halakhic" source instead. If that's the case, then
this is not "the law that Jesus followed", but the
"legalism (pharisism) that He railed against."

Cheerfully resisting change since 1959.

Closest I found in a search:

"The rabbis were aware of this as well. Although there are some
dissenting opinions that allow mourning even a one-day-old newborn,
the predominant position of Jewish law was that if a baby did not
survive for 30 days, it was as if the baby had not lived. The two
major Jewish legal statements on which this custom is based are these:

"We do not mourn for fetuses, and anything which does not live for 30
days, we do not mourn for it." -Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Laws of
Mourning 1:6

"The infant, for 30 days, even including the full 30th day (if it
dies), we do not mourn for it." - Shulhan Arukh Yoreh De'ah 374:8

The reason for the limit of 30 days appears to derive from the fact
that 30 days is the age at which we are commanded to redeem the
firstborn. For the rabbis, this marked the point at which a fetus
became fully viable.

The result of this ruling was that none of the practices of mourning
was to take place if the infant was born dead or did not survive to
the 31st day. Although the child was buried, there was no funeral per
se, the grave was left unmarked, and the parents might never know
where the grave was located. It was undoubtedly considered an act of
kindness to the parents and the community, for without the
restriction, families would have been in mourning almost

The view of the Mishna Torah is that one's soul does not evolve until
age 30 days. Of course your milage will vary.

So of course, you could kill your newborn up to the 30th day, right?

The Cigar Diary:
ASC Facebook Group: