Re: Jesus explains science.

On 2010-12-10 08:14:53 -0800, Tony <tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:

But becoming a "better" person (whatever that means in the absense of God) flows from one's relationship with said God.

=== CHANGE OF SUBJECT ===

Are you claming that (a) being "a better person" in the absense of God is nonsensical to you and, hence (b) people without God have no way of becoming better people?!

You didn't read my question. How do you define being a "better" person in the absence of God?

It's the same "being a better person" that you already know about, but without the God part.

That's what I'm asking *YOU* -- are you saying there's no such thing as "a better person" without God?

It was simple English. I don't know (intellectually) what being a better person means in the absence of God.

....From this, it seems so.

I don't have a set definition, but I'd think that someone who used to be a scumbag, but then turned nice, would be "a better person." He may not have found God, but he can turn nice.

Or are you saying that, any time that happens, that's God's work and, hence, God's involved?

(I thought God didn't interfere?!?!)


A "patron saint" is a saint that through their life experiences (or miracles they performed) appear to have a special affinity for certain people, places or problems.

These are also saints some people adopt for particular problems. I'm a fat person who has trouble maintaining his weight. St. Thomas Aquinas is the saint I picked because he's fat in all the pictures. :)

Oh, so the church doesn't appoint So-n-so as "patron saint of <whatever>"...? I can just pick whoever I want as my patron saint of Misc's-bad-humor...?!?!

(I suppose it would help if there was a "Calvin's Dad" among the recognized saints...)

I know the chuch determines who's a saint and who's not, I just figured they picked the patrons, too -- is that not the case?


I may get a tongue lashing when I hopefully meet him.

....Or some pasta! :D


Oh, and "calling-out Thor" + "cast iron sword" shuold lead to a serious
lightning storm, probably not boulders. I realize he's not YOUR God,
but... have you *never* read a book or watched a cartoon?!?! ;)

Odin's the lightning guy. Thor is a hammer (if I remember correctly). :)

Thor *HAS* a hammer, but he's the Norse god of Thunder, Lightning, storms, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor

Odin is sort of Norse's "Zues" (or "God", if you prefer :D) He rules Asgard and is God of War, wisdom, death and a bunch of more fluffy/occult things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin

Now you know <G>.


And how 'bout that sheep named Dolly? :)

Conceived in a lab, with no help/intervention from God.

So you're saying God can't do it?

Who, now...?


See?!?! And that wasn't even my #1 theory! <G>

How about the Holy Spirit added the additional 26 chromosomes and
started that egg dividing? :)

The what, now?

You have an egg. God provided the other half

Who, now...?

<G>

"...The power of the Holy Spirit will o'ershadow you and you will conceive a child..."

So now you're telling me that "The Holy Spirit" means alcohol and Joseph's charisma...?!


, and the egg went to splitting until it was finally born on December 25th.

(You're not a 12/25 literalist, too, are you? I thought that even The
Church recognized that 12/25 was an "observance" day but, assuming Jesus
even existed (I think they do! ;), he was likely born in Spring.)

Of course not, everyone knows Dec 25th was chosen for its proximity to the winter solstice. It makes it easier to convert the pagans.

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic. I thought this was basically a given, as historic fact. I was curious if you were taught differently.


Perhaps I was not clear: No intervention is necessary for free-will to be moot.

* God sees everything that will happen.
* God knows, before things happen, what's going to happen.
(This is my hearing of what you say -- have I got it right?)
* (Me:) Therefore, what is going ot happen is already known, before it
happens.
* (Me:) That's pretty much the classic definition of "pre-destined" --
"free will" is pointless.

FWIW, while I hate the idea (I suppose because I'm destined to! ;), when
I think about it (and I [i'm destined to] try not to), I come to the
conclusion that this is right -- everything is pre-destined, and that
free-will is an illusion. Indeed, "enlightenment" may well be the
arrival at the place where this is clear, in its entirety.

Que sera, sera. What will be, will be.

But knowing and affecting are two different things. If I knew you were going to walk out in front of a car, and I let you, that's free will. If I grab you by the collar and pull you back, it isn't.

Did I cause you to walk in front of the car?

No, fate/destiny did. And, if you grabbed me by the collar, fate/destiny caused that. That's what I'm saying: no free will.

(change of subject, again :D)

Btw, I hate arguing this -- it makes me grumpy (probably my destiny :\) I hope that your destiny lets us drop it early.

--
Please remove your pants if you want to send me e-mail.
Lots of good cigar info, the ASC Birthday page, FAQs, vendors and more at
<http://www.ManyFriends.com/Cigars/>
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.

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