Re: A nothing-complicated Sunday

On 2010-08-09 16:29:27 -0700, "Alex W." <ingilt@xxxxxxxxxxx> said:

So whose should it be -- the doctors and pharmaceutical companies
and pacemaker manufacturers, all of them with a vested interest
in having as much done as possible without regard to value or
usefulness or pain or dignity?

My [admittedly limited] experience in this area is that the doctors
have the lowest corruption factor of the group. Not that all doctors
are completely without corruption or bias, but I believe that their
training largely emphasises human life and dignity, and there's ALWAYS
another sick-or-dying person, so it's not as if they gain anything by
keeping this particular bed full.

Of course, doctors work for hospitals, and now you start working your
way up the corruption scale, and the pressure *does* trickle down.
<sigh>

Precisely.
Now throw into the mix a situation where patients are desperately
afraid and hence have a very hard time keeping a straight head to
make the right decision for them and their family.

That's why I'm saying that the patient, and their chosen advisors (presumably, but not necessarily friends, family and doctors) should make theh choice. It's not perfect, but it's far better than any of the alternatives, on a nearly logarithmic scale.


The problem with involving the government and, in particular,
"ObamaCare", is that this is a very individualized judgement call, but
they (you know: *them*!) want to reduce it to a series of calculations.
You cannot legistlate good judgement, and every attempt to do so in
the past has resulted in reduction in quality.

It seems to me that much depends on the exact nature of
government involvement. A professional panel of civil servants
directly appointed by government would be one thing;

By which you mean "horribly bad", right?


quiteanother would be legislation requiring the consultation of
certain parties of useful qualifications and expertise before
end-of-life and terminal illness decisions are made.

By which you mean "every bit as horribly bad", right?


With one, you get a batch of state-employed bureaucrats parachuted in to
deliver a verdict based on files and the needs and priorities of
the state.

(Which one was that, again? Sounds like "both" to me.)


With the other, the state does not directly involve
itself beyond ensuring that any decision is made after truly
comprehensive advice from all possible angles given by experts
nominated by the patient or his family. See the difference?

Hmmm. I think you're advocating that the state demand that you use common sense. I think that this can't help but end poorly. I'll grant that it might even have an early sucess or two but, once the state starts telling the citizens -- via leglistation -- what good common sense they must exercise, things will go downhill very quickly.

What if a state-sanctioned doctor advises me one way and my friends and I decide something else? Can we be deemed "unfit to make the decision" by demonstration of our clear lack of collective common sense?!

Oh, you're going to tell me this could never happen in your government-run utopia?!?! I want you to put a dollar and a fine cigar in escrow somewhere and point to an example that didn't deteriorate that way!

--
Please remove your pants if you want to send me e-mail.
Lots of good cigar info, the ASC Birthday page, FAQs, vendors and more at
<http://www.ManyFriends.com/Cigars/>
A "great" review is one with the name of the cigar before the review text in the body of the post. :)

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: A nothing-complicated Sunday
    ... My experience in this area is that the doctors ... training largely emphasises human life and dignity, ... That's why I'm saying that the patient, ... Fuck common sense. ...
    (alt.smokers.cigars)
  • Re: OT - The Culture of Death
    ... off and let the kid die with some dignity. ... bills are so high. ... Doctors and a hospital ethics panel determined the treatment is ...
    (alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers)
  • Re: Saturday afternoon smoke
    ... these open and found broken up tobacco inside the cigar. ... You doctors! ... A little exploratory surgery is always the answer, ...
    (alt.smokers.cigars)