Re: Charging by the Byte


"Ray" <chigarayREMOVE@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:36:16 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@xxxxxxx>
wrote:


"Ray" <chigarayREMOVE@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:08:59 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@xxxxxxx>
wrote:


"Ray" <chigarayREMOVE@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:45:15 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@xxxxxxx>
wrote:


"Ray" <chigarayREMOVE@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:u0nd541q171jvbic9cl8cu939oalshb2s0@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:28:23 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@xxxxxxx>
wrote:


"Ray" <chigarayREMOVE@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:07:10 GMT, "Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@xxxxxxx>
wrote:


"Ray" <chigarayREMOVE@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:cs3d54pvbsth7moapkgjqp3vs58t31k0nc@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:42:28 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
<pmcook@xxxxxxx>
wrote:


"Ray" <chigarayREMOVE@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4j2c545t190hhdea0b7v8lrgidbug2fdfe@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:39:47 -0700, Miss Elaine Eos
<Misc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <Uzi5k.15765$8q2.2429@trnddc02>,
"Paul M. Cook" <pmcook@xxxxxxx> wrote:

If A == B and B == C then A == C.

Works on paper but real life and language is a whole lot
more
complicated
and subtle.

Depends on what your definition of language is... ;)

Or what your defintion of "is" is.

Words are what we use to think. You cannot have thought without
words.
You
can figure out where I'm going with this.

Paul



Really? I am an artist and often have thoughts and ideas that
are
purely visual.

Is that thought? Can you be sentient with pictures? And lemme
tell
ya,
I
have had plenty of visualizations that didn't need no words - get
my
drift?
ha ha ha.

No, I don't get your drift. Please elaborate.

If you had a visualization that didn't require words, it was a
complete thought.


What did pre-verbal humans do before language was invented? Or
were
they incapable of thought?

They communicated and reacted but they didn't think very well.
Kind
of
like
your average hip hop "artist."


I disagree. If they were able to communicate, they were capable of
thought.

The more a person knows language and the more a person knows the
vocabulary
of that language, the more capable their thought processes are.
That
by
the
way is something linguists study all the time so it is hardly my own
original idea.

Paul



But being less capable does not mean completely unable.

Of course.

Paul



So if you are less capable of conveying thought with fewer words, you
would still be able to convey simple thoughts wih NO words.

What exactly are you conveying then? A thought? Or an emotion? Or an
instinctive urge? How does one compose a thought without some form of a
language? When a baby cries because it is hungry, is it thinking "I am
hungry, I must cry?" It is communicating a need, it is transferring a
desire, but is the baby hungry or does it need changing or is it in pain
or
is it having a bad day? It is simply communicating a state of being -
discomfort - not a thought.

Paul



And if one caveman walked up to another and held his hands up to his
head representing antlers and then pointed off in a particular
direction, he has conveyed the message "There are deer in that
direction", even though they do not have written words or accepted
sounds to represent "deer" and " over there".

What if he meant moose? Bees do that all the time. They do a kind of
"dance" if you will and by doing so pass on to other bees where the
flowers
are. Are they thinking?

Paul

Even if it's moose, it's food, and a thought has been conveyed
non-verbally.

And leave bees out of it. We're talking human beings here.

Again, is it thought? In the case of the non verbal caveman (Not Mike, he
is verbal) are they thinking or is it instinct? The preservation genes in
action, perhaps? Of which all living creature including amoebas possess.

Paul


.

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