- From: Bart Goddard <goddardbe@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 3 Aug 2007 00:34:48 GMT
"Alex W." <ingilt@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in news:f8tnrd$btm$1@xxxxxxxx:
The point is, that the "something" needs to be explained.
Nothing wrong with explanations, as long as you don't forget
that there are multiple versions equally as valid as each
Who knows what "valid" means here. How, exactly, do you
judge what is "valid"? There are sects that pluck their
eyeballs out. Is that as valid as Calvinism?
Rather, it is the demand to have faith in something
There is no "demand". Faith is trust, and you can't
that someone trust in something.
Well, telling me that unless I have faith in XYZ I will
eternity in the hellfires of damnation (without relief)
sounds pretty much like a demand to me.
Then you're not listening. So to answer your previous
question: This is what makes me think you're not a
church-goer. Maybe you go, but if you're just listening
to the choirs, you're not really playing with the others.
One shouldn't fall into the other extreme either. If faith
does not inform your thoughts and actions in this life, it
loses rather a great deal.
2 + 2 = 4.
Every single time.
The rules of mathematics are reasonably clear, the results
repoducible and much of it is amenable to proof.
You cannot say the same about faith which after all,
requires a willing suspension of reason and taking the
answer to Life, the Universe and Everything on trust.
I don't know where you get your ideas about faith, but
they're not part of any orthodox Christianity. No one
ever asked me to suspend reason or to take anything on
trust. Again: Faith is in the heart, not the brain.
You do not need to discover calculus. You need to discover
You can't. You keep assuming P and not P at the same time.
You can't get anywhere sensible if you insist on doing that.
I say insulting things about *all* religions.
I say insulting things about *all* mothers, so don't
get bent out of shape when I have a few comments about
The issue is whether they are true. (And they're not.)
The very choice of which Bible to preach from is an act of
Wrong again. Doctrine is based on the original languages,
not on the translation adopted for the local congregation.
True -- if those two pastors happen to be of the same
But what happens when you pit a Lutheran against a Baptist?
Still the same.
That brings us right back to "extra ecclesiam nulla salus".
If you're not of the right church, there will be no
salvation for you.
You're Latin is lacking. Recall my definition of "The Church"
is "where the Gospel is preached and the sacraments used
rightly". These things happen to some extent in every
(sensible) congregation. Where they happen, there is the
(true, invisible) Church. You don't know these simple things,
yet you want to pontificate about the subject as if you did.
As to infants, earlier you argued that infants cannot have
saving faith because they are already infected with original
I said nothing of the sort. You're still not listening.
Cheerfully resisting change since 1959.
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