Re: Europe's Contempt For Other Cultures Can't Be Sustained
- From: "Warren Hopper" <WarrenHopper@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:39:19 GMT
"friend" <hurrah@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Warren Hopper" wrote:...
"friend" <hurrah@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Warren Hopper" wrote:....
"friend" wrote:...
A continent that inflicted colonial brutality all over the
globe for
200 years has little claim to the superiority of its
values
By Martin Jacques
02/17/06 "The Guardian" -- -- Is the argument over the
Danish
cartoons
really reducible to a matter of free speech? Even if we
believe that
free speech is a fundamental value, that does not give us
carte blanche
to say what we like in any context, regardless of
consequence
or
effect. Respect for others, especially in an increasingly
interdependent world, is a value of at least equal
importance.
Europe has never had to worry too much about context or
effect because
for around 200 years it dominated and colonised most of
the
world.
Much of this is true so far as it goes. But the article
glosses over the
fact that the world has changed a lot since colonial times.
The memory of exploitation by the Europeans still has
tremendous pulling
power in the minds of the people who suffered from it.
Politicians in >these countries are expert at tapping into
lingering resentment against >foreign domination in order to
win elections and gain their own power.
Although what you say is certainly and to some extent true,
however I would rather add that the politicians of those
countries behave as such in order to gain some kind of
legitimacy but not necessarily the power itself, since we
know
how those "elections" were and still are) always rigged.
Notwithstanding, the fact that such power games are still in
use,
I somehow believe that such elites could never come to power
without
(at least a
tacit) European or US support. That is by and large the modus
operandi used by them in order to gain power.
Again, it's to some extent true that Euro/US forces conspire to
support
political elites that would otherwise never have come to power
in their
countries. This has been particularly of Amercian influence in
South
America.
On the other hand, the chaotic state of these societies invite
such mettling ( again, most notably in South America ).
But the state of the societies of
South America are changing. Venezuela is a prime example of
the
De-Americanization sweeping over South America and,
indeed, over much of the world today ( thank you George Bush ).
I hope Latin American people will be able to free themselves
from the US Corporate and their agents' grip and find some day
their own way to live in peace and prosperity. I'm certain, the
task is hard and needs a long breath.
In the era of military juntas, American influence in Latin America was a
mixture of stabilizing and destabilizing. At the same time, we exploited
them economically for everything it was worth. I used to say that I was
thankful for Fiedel Castro, so we had a communist boogy man to scare them
with, otherwise they woud have tossed us out long ago.
But times have changed. S.A is mostly democracies now, stuggling but with
feet firmly on the ground. They've outgrown America and we all hope that
the new prosperity can raise the living conditions of people who literally
have nothing.
I think the phenomena of De-Americanization is global, even in Europe. For
all their rhetoric to the contrary, the Europeans have depended on America
for leadership since WWII. Even that seems to be changing, for the better I
hope.
So, yeah, in a climate of post-colonial malaise, the old powers
have had
disproportionate influence, but I think that the world is
evolving away >from the old power equation of the 20th century.
In 20 years, it may well >be that the sole super-power in the
world is China. How they will behave >in the new world order, I
know not.
What can China offer to the world on an ideological level? Has
she nothing to give, so is the sole military and economic power
by and large insufficient to lead the world, not even as a
superpower.
Maybe they have pragmatism to offer us, perhaps their lack of ideology is
itself a blessing ( but I doubt if you'll agree with that ).
If they can regain their cultural brilliance, nearly destroyed by the
Cultural Revolution ( ironically ), they will have much to offer the world.
For a Muslim perspective, the situation in China is very different for the
West. They have had a long, 1000-year history of Muslim generals, admirals,
financial wizards, even great poets and literary figures. Islam is not a
new thing to them, so they will not respond with the same level of
over-reaction that we are seeing in the U.S., Europe and elsewhere.
On the other hand, the communist government does not have a good record in
respecting the rights and culture of any of the many minorities within
China.
I think avoiding civil strife is the top priority in China, not just for
their sake but for everyone's sake. If things in China began to break loose,
the global consequences would be unimaginable.
That's how the game is played, even in the countries who did
the exploiting.
The game in the exploiting countries may differ a little bit
because corporates never accept a politician who will
endanger
their interests. I'm inclined to believe too that one man one
vote is just some dust in the eyes of the voting folks.
Remember
that the "Amigos' " connection is not solely specific to the
US,
nor is it an American phenomenon alone.
:-)
I discussed this a bit in the paragraph above.
I think the inherent corruption of the election process is
highly
overstated. It need not be corrupt. Jimmy Carter has
established a good
system of oversight to ensure that elections are not
*massively* corrupt (
there will always be the evitable fiddling on the local level,
but
significant in the total vote ).
By the way, the mechanics of the American electoral process
does not pass
the test for a 'fair' system according to international
standards of
electoral auditability and accountability, and after years of
debate still
doesn't meet those standards. I think it shows that if people
*want* fair
elections they can have them.
But reality has moved beyond that period of European world
power. We >aren't talking about the 19th century any more.
A
hundred years has >passed and it is now the 21st century.
That
fact can not be ignored.
Sure.
I think everyone recognizes that the European record in
human
rights is >not perfect. On the other hand, all but their
harshest critics will also >admit that it's better than any
one
else's in the world, including the >United States.
There us another fact of history that the Guardian somehow
forgets to
mention. It is that the respect for human rights
deteriorated
dramatically in many of these countries after the end ofcolonialism, >especially in Africa, in fact almost
universally
in the case of Africa.
Yes.
Ultimately, contempory issues about the rights of powerful
groups of
foreigners residing outside of their countries may have the
same answer as
in colonial times. If the foreigners residing outside of
their
country do
not like the way they are being treated, there is a very
quick
and obvious
solution to their dilemma - they can go home, the same way
the
Europeans
went home after the end of colonialism.
The Guardian article seems to have difficulty understanding
that the
questions of today have many parallels to those of colonial
times, but is
it really so difficult to understand ?
Time will tell.
By the brevity of your reply, I think you sensed the 'sub-text'
of what I
was saying. It's not what I want to happen, but I think it
what is going >to happen, nonetheless.
The people of Denmark have the same right to self-determination
as the >rest of the world and I think they will use it ways
that are unexpected - >that is, unexpected to anyone who is
unfamiliar with their ways.
The societies of Northern Europe are very old and coherent
social
structures, which is the reason why they have been able to
embrace >different peoples of the world in ways that other
societies have not been >capable of doing. Think "white
tribes" and you will not be too far off >the mark.
When I first became aware of Cartoon-Gate, I thought, "Denmark,
of all
places in the world". But, then I realized that the country of
Denmark
could not have been better chosen if the intention were to
drive an even
deeper wedge between the Islamic and Western worlds, a very
broad and deep
wedge indeed. It is unfortunate.
Exactly. "Someone" used the deadly trap in which unfortunately
Denmark as well as many other countries are falling in. It's
sad, indeed very sad.
The cities of Sodom and Gomorra could not produce one good man, but perhaps
humanity can do better this time. :-)
<snipped for brevity>
.
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