Re: Iraqi rebels in western city turn against Qaeda


"kuff (Isaac Adams)" <kuff00@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1138289707.418913.149090@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> The Chozen Few wrote:
>> "kuff (Isaac Adams)" <kuff00@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:1138282381.202975.42750@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> > The Chozen Few wrote:
>> >> "kuff (Isaac Adams)" <kuff00@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> news:1138247078.425701.257700@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >
>> >> > The Chozen Few wrote:
>> >> >> "kuff (Isaac Adams)" <kuff00@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:1138119636.749259.163820@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Chozen Few wrote:
>> >> >> >> "kuff (Isaac Adams)" <kuff00@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:1138110505.170333.83280@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > The Chozen Few wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> Iraqi rebels in western city turn against Qaeda
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 23 Jan 2006 18:36:17 GMT
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Source: Reuters
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> By Aseel Kami
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> BAGHDAD, Jan 23 (Reuters) - Iraqi nationalist rebels in the
>> >> >> >> >> Sunni
>> >> >> >> >> Arab
>> >> >> >> >> city
>> >> >> >> >> of Ramadi have turned against their former al Qaeda allies
>> >> >> >> >> after
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> bomb
>> >> >> >> >> attack this month killed 80 people.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Residents said on Monday at least three prominent figures on
>> >> >> >> >> both
>> >> >> >> >> sides
>> >> >> >> >> were
>> >> >> >> >> killed in tit-for-tat assassinations after local insurgent
>> >> >> >> >> groups
>> >> >> >> >> formed
>> >> >> >> >> an
>> >> >> >> >> alliance against al Qaeda, blaming it for massacring police
>> >> >> >> >> recruits
>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> Ramadi on Jan. 5.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/COL356505.htm
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> ******************************************************
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> But wait! Weren't those recruits "collaborators,"
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Some were. Some were also "nationalist rebels".
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Or had been.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> and even worse, possibly
>> >> >> >> >> also registered voters?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > The "nationalist rebels" provided security at polling places
>> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > recent elections and warned zarqawi's boys to stay away.
>> >> >> >> > Don't
>> >> >> >> > think
>> >> >> >> > they have much problem with registered voters - do you?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Nope, *they* don't -- not any longer, at least. AQ obviously
>> >> >> >> has
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> greater problem with voters, and this latest incident is more
>> >> >> >> evidence
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> they also have the greater problem with the reconstituted Iraqi
>> >> >> >> police
>> >> >> >> forces (even though many of the latter are Sunni).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Whether or not Zarqawi actually wrote that letter famously
>> >> >> >> attributed
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> him
>> >> >> >> (link below), I think AQ may actually be experiencing
>> >> >> >> "suffocation"
>> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> Iraq
>> >> >> >> nowadays -- do you?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yes. Their services are no longer required. Their graduates
>> >> >> > may
>> >> >> > now
>> >> >> > disperse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I was in a rush yesterday morning, but I have time for a more
>> >> >> serious
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> lengthier response now.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Whatever AQ may have taught some of its "graduates" in Iraq about
>> >> >> roadside
>> >> >> IEDs and self-detonation in crowds, I think that two other lessons
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> many
>> >> >> other "evolved transient sentients" throughout the world (though
>> >> >> *not*
>> >> >> including you, apparently) have learned from their activities in
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> country will prove to be more enduring, more strategically
>> >> >> important,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> much more constructive.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> One lesson is that most Muslims have at least as much to fear from
>> >> >> AQ
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> anyone else does. The other is that millions of Muslims have
>> >> >> bravely
>> >> >> defied them.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I doubt that Bush & Co. foresaw that particular outcome before the
>> >> >> invasion,
>> >> >> and I don't know of anyone else (including myself) who did. But
>> >> >> history's
>> >> >> ultimate verdict on this adminstration, even with all its flaws,
>> >> >> *may*
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> that it cleared away some of the obstacles to Islam's becoming
>> >> >> something
>> >> >> even better than what it once was during the best days of the
>> >> >> Abbasids
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> Baghdad and the Sufis in Granada.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If Islam ever actually does become a "religion of peace," it will
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> thanks
>> >> >> in no small part to the "infidel" who has very publicly made that
>> >> >> claim
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> it while leading "the Great Satan" in the midst of war.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'll file this under "Silver Linings" while waiting for the rain to
>> >> > stop.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> That's it? I thought you might at least come back with another
>> >> inspirational and "surprising" OBL quote.
>> >
>> > Well yeah, that's it. You seemed to really want the silver lining and
>> > it was independent of anything OBL actually has to say.
>>
>>
>> Regardless of what either of us may or may not want, do you deny that
>> events
>> in Iraq have shown that most Muslims have at least as much to fear from
>> AQ
>> as anyone else does, and that millions of Muslims have bravely defied
>> them
>> in that country?
>
> I agree with the "as much to fear" bit. Not so much with the
> "millions...bravely" defying them.
>
> (NB: As many of the folks defying them with force of arms are the Iraqi
> resistance, this comes dangerously close to calling terrorists heroes
> doesn't it? :-) )


I was referring more to the millions who've voted in Iraq's elections
despite the threat from AQ, especially those held before non-AQ insurgents
started protecting the polling places. But as for those defying AQ with
force of arms, why do *you* call them terrorists, even in jest? I don't
even call them terrorists for defying our *** troops with force of arms --
they're not legal combatants according to the terms of the Geneva Convention
if they're not wearing identifiable uniforms, but I don't consider them
terrorists *if* they're not intentionally targeting non-combatants. Nor, as
I've often pointed out here, does the Encyclopedia of Ethics.

Of course, I'm aware that you favor the FBI definition of terrorism, but
I've often pointed out the jurisdictional problems involved in trying to
apply that in Iraq (no matter who you're trying to apply it to), and you've
never had any substantive response to offer to that objection.


*** (excluding you, of course)


.

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