Re: Hurricane Ahmed -- Mark Steyn

In article <JbFSe.159491$E95.152877@fed1read01>,
"The Chozen Few" <thechosenfew@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> "brickbat" <brickbat@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:brickbat-38AE11.09480504092005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > In article <29sSe.158636$E95.6836@fed1read01>,
> > "The Chozen Few" <thechosenfew@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> "brickbat" <brickbat@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:brickbat-3B841D.18481403092005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > In article <rEnSe.158597$E95.133583@fed1read01>,
> >> > "The Chozen Few" <thechosenfew@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Bob Cooper" <rcooper1@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> news:S_ERe.7863$dm.687@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "The Chozen Few" <thechosenfew@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:Y8pRe.154287$E95.52107@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Bob Cooper" <rcooper1@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:d8mRe.7765$dm.7116@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "The Chozen Few" <thechosenfew@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> >> > news:DuaRe.150760$E95.136036@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> "Bob Cooper" <rcooper1@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:iW8Re.7734$dm.307@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> >> >> > Okay, folks. You've read the gloom and doom in the NYT and
> >> >> >> >> > the Washington Post, not to mention the Guardian. Now -- as
> >> >> >> >> > they used to say on Monty Python -- for something completely
> >> >> >> >> > different :>)
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > ========================================================
> >> >> >> >> > http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn28.html
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > New constitution has something for everyone
> >> >> >> >> > August 28, 2005
> >> >> >> >> > BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > The constitutional wrangling in Baghdad is par for the course
> >> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> >> > Iraq's
> >> >> >> >> > nation-building -- at least as filtered through the Western
> >> >> >> >> > media.
> >> >> >> >> > As
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > deadline approaches, we read that the whole magilla's about to
> >> >> >> >> > go
> >> >> >> >> > belly up, there's no agreement on the way forward,
> >> >> >> >> > Washington's
> >> >> >> >> > going
> >> >> >> >> > to have to admit it called things disastrously wrong and step
> >> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > salvage what it can by postponing the handover to an Iraqi
> >> >> >> >> > administration/the first free elections/the draft
> >> >> >> >> > constitution/whatever.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > <snip>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > To be sure, we shouldda done this, and we shouldda done that.
> >> >> >> >> > Yet
> >> >> >> >> > nonetheless Iraq advances day by day. The real quagmire is at
> >> >> >> >> > home,
> >> >> >> >> > where the kinkily gleeful relish of defeatism manifested by
> >> >> >> >> > Cindy
> >> >> >> >> > Sheehan,
> >> >> >> >> > Joan Baez, Ted Kennedy et al. bears less and less relationship
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > anything happening over there. Iraq's future is a matter for
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > Iraqis
> >> >> >> >> > now
> >> >> >> >> > -- which, given the U.S. media, Democrat blowhards like Joe
> >> >> >> >> > Biden
> >> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > Republican squishes like Chuck Hagel, is just as well.
> >> >> >> >> > ========================================================
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > "We shouldda done this, and we shouldda done that." As
> >> >> >> >> > everyone with 20/20 hindsight can clearly see. And, there's
> >> >> >> >> > never any shortage of folks so equipped. LOL.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> I think that even 20/200 hindsight would be clear enough for
> >> >> >> >> some
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> things "we shouldda done" (or not done) in Iraq since the
> >> >> >> >> invasion,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > True. But, 20/200 hindsight is still hindsight.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Some of the mistakes were clearly mistakes even at the time they
> >> >> >> were
> >> >> >> being
> >> >> >> made -- clearly, that is, to almost everyone but the people
> >> >> >> immediately
> >> >> >> involved in making them. For instance, when Bremer put the entire
> >> >> >> Iraqi
> >> >> >> military on the unemployment line (I keep coming back to that one)
> >> >> >> soon
> >> >> >> after his arrival in Iraq, he reportedly did so against the advice
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> most
> >> >> >> of his in-country staff.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'll agree that, in retrospect, that seems to have been a mistake.
> >> >> > I say "seems", rather than "clearly seems", because my level of
> >> >> > confidence, I believe, is somewhat less than yours. But, perhaps
> >> >> > your hindsight is somewhat better than mine :>)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I thought firing the entire Iraqi military was a monumental blunder as
> >> >> soon
> >> >> as I read about it. Didn't you?
> >> >>
> >> > On the other hand, having a standing army of mostly Sunni troops would
> >> > have added a rather interesting dynamic, don't you think?
> >>
> >>
> >> Mostly Sunni or not, most of the rank and file obviously had little
> >> desire
> >> to continue fighting for the Baathists, and it would've been much better
> >> to
> >> have them still standing in those ranks and files (and helping put the
> >> country back together much sooner) than standing in unemployment lines.
> >>
> > I think they (the former Iraqi army) are fighting for the Baathists, or
> > at least Sunni rule by their conversion to insurgents who are exacting a
> > lot of casualties at present.
>
>
> Note that I said "*most* of the rank and file obviously had little desire to
> continue fighting for the Baathists..." (emphasis added). The firings
> probably added somewhat to the minority who did have such a desire, but
> possibly more importantly, it was subsequently more difficult for us than it
> otherwise would've been to keep track of the whole bunch, whatever their
> affiliations, and sort them out.
>
Say what??????? This is getting to complicated. Saddam's army was
basically Sunni manned and controlled to keep his Sunni Baathist regime
in power, as well as to threaten his neighbors; Shiite Iran, being the
most obvious. Since they are about to lose any participation in this
newly forming government (I'm being optimistic), they are fighting for
their sovereignty in any way they can.

>
> > Or do you think the insurgents are all Al
> > Quaida terrorists as the administration would have us think?
>
>
> All? No, I don't think that, and I don't even think the administration
> would have us think that. But I also don't think it makes as much
> difference as some people seem to think it does, beyond the presumably
> greater willingness of some Osamaheads to blow themselves up along with
> their targets. Totalitarians and terrorists are natural allies.
>
Only 10% of the fighters are estimated to have come from outside Iraq.
Check any international media source.

I don't disagree with your last. Democracies tend not to support
terrorism because of the collective sense of right and the freedoms
inherent in democracies to learn of injustices. If we dumb ourselves
down enough, however, we can be conned into a full fledged invasion of a
foreign land.

>
> >>
> >> >> >> >> but Steyn makes some excellent points as usual.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > He writes extremely well, has a biting -- perhaps a bit dark --
> >> >> >> > sense of humor that appeals to me, and certainly offers a
> >> >> >> > unique perspective. He may be dead wrong about some
> >> >> >> > things, but he's rarely boring :>)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Agreed.
.

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