Re: WHY ST PAUL CURSED JESUS OR PAUL CURSED BY JESUS??
- From: gordonlivery@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 05:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
"An man searching for a way to get salvation through Christ
by entering in at the back door." - keep searching, you'll eventually
Christ knocking at the front door of your heart.
(P)aul was ordained to lead, by Christ Himself, who turned (S)aul from
Christians, to joining them.
However it was Peter, ( that disciple) who recognized Christ for
being the Saviour
of the world and the Jewish Messiah. To which Christ proclaimed he
would build his
church, and He did.
Quoting Christian scripture out of context and a Jewish english
teacher will certainly
get you attention from G_d. Are you ready for it?
On 12 mei, 04:31, ARAH <arah1...@xxxxxxxxx> argued:
Who was St. Paul? Was he a disciple of Jesus or a hypocrite?
Did he curse Jesus or was he cursed by Jesus?
"On the face of it, Paul's doctrine of Jesus is a daring
departure from Judaism. Paul was advocating a doctrine that
seemed to have far more in common with pagan myths than with
Judaism: that Jesus was a divine-human person who had
descended to Earth from the heavens and experienced death
for the express purpose of saving mankind." (The Mythmaker:
Paul and the Invention of Christianity, Hyam Maccoby, Harper
& Row, San Francisco, 1986, p. 12).
In reality, Paul, or Saul never met Jesus. Before converting
to "Christianity", he was a vicious enemy of Christians. He
raided churches and tortured people who converted to
Christianity (The Acts 8:3; 22:3-10). By claiming that he
met Jesus on his way to Jerusalem and Damascus, he tried to
explain his so called conversion. Instead of Jerusalem he
went to Arabia (Galatians 1:17). He claimed that he was
chosen by Jesus as a minister and as a representative (The
Acts 26:16-19). He travelled many places and sent letters in
Greek, to preach his version of Christianity. In this way,
he distorted and mutilated the original message of Jesus.
He provided ground for the Doctrine of Trinity; he created
the story of Jesus' sacrifice for our redemption; he raised
Jesus to his "Father's right side" for judgment; he nailed
the written code to the cross (Colossians 2:14), opposing
Jesus (Matthew 19:16-19). He perverted the main message of
Jesus, which was to worship God alone.
Thus, Paul had intense arguments with Peter (Cephas) and
Barnabas (Acts 15:36-41; Galatians 2:11-14; 4:10-14). The
disciples did not trust him and escaped from him (Acts
9:26). They knew that he was a wolf in the midst of sheep.
You may ask "why would Paul choose a life of persecution
rather than being the persecutor?" Though we may not be able
to identify the exact motive of Paul, we can find many
answers to this question in psychology or history books. The
history of religions are full of dubious or sincere people
with strange missions or delusions.
When Saul became Paul...
To provide some more information on Paul, I want to quote
two paragraphs from Hyam Maccoby's book The Mythmaker: Paul
and the Invention of Christianity, Harper & Row, San
Francisco, 1986, pp. 4, 16:
"We should remember that the New Testament, as we have it,
is much more dominated by Paul than appears at first sight.
As we read it, we come across the Four Gospels, of which
Jesus is the hero, and do not encounter Paul as a character
until we embark on the post-Jesus narrative of Acts. Then we
finally come into contact with Paul himself, in his letters.
But this impression is misleading, for the earliest writings
in the New Testament are actually Paul's letters, which were
written about AD 50-60, while the Gospels were not written
until the period AD 70-110. This means that the theories of
Paul were already before the writers of the Gospels and
colored their interpretations of Jesus' activities. Paul is,
in a sense, present from the very first word of the New
Testament. This is of course, not the whole story, for the
Gospels are based on traditions and even written sources
which go back to a time before the impact of Paul, and these
early traditions and sources are not entirely obliterated in
the final version and give valuable indications of what the
story was like before Paulinist editors pulled it into final
shape. However, the dominant outlook and shaping perspective
of the Gospels is that of Paul, for the simple reason that
it was the Paulinist view of what Jesus' sojourn on Earth
had been about that was triumphant in the Church as it
developed in history. Rival interpretations, which at one
time had been orthodox, opposed to Paul's very individual
views, now became heretical and were crowded out of the
final version of the writings adopted by the Pauline Church
as the inspired canon of the New Testament.
"Paul derived this religion from Hellenistic sources,
chiefly by a fusion of concepts taken from Gnosticism and
concepts taken from the mystery religions, particularly from
that of Attis. The combination of these elements with
features derived from Judaism, particularly the
incorporation of the Jewish scriptures, reinterpreted to
provide a background of sacred history for the new myth, was
unique; and Paul alone was the creator of this amalgam.
Jesus himself had no idea of it, and would have been amazed
and shocked at the role assigned him by Paul as a suffering
The real followers of Jesus
Indeed, "The Mythmaker" provides important information on
early followers of Jesus, the Ebionites. This group had
earlier been called the Nazarenes and was strongly against
Paul and his paganist doctrine. Nazarenes were led by
disciples of Jesus, such as James and Peter, who knew Jesus
and his message much better than Paul who met Jesus only in
dreams and visions.
Unfortunately, when the Romans occupied Jerusalem in 70 AD,
they destroyed the Nazarene Church. So, Jerusalem Nazarenes
immigrated to Caesarea and even to Alexandria in Egypt.
Since that defeat, the Pauline Christian movement did not
encounter serious opposition from the true followers of
Jesus Christ. Finally, they were declared heretics in about
135 AD, by Pharisee rabbis, since they refused to accept the
doctrines of Paul. The descendants of Jerusalem Nazarenes
survived about four centuries under the title "Ebionites"
Self-appointed disciple changes the name
Disciples and early followers of Jesus were never called
Christians; they were called Nazarenes. We find this
original name in the New Testament (Acts 24:5). It is
interesting that the names "Christians" and "Christianity"
were invented decades after Jesus in Antioch (Acts 11:26).
Not only did Paul change his own name and identity, he
changed the name and identity of Jesus' message.
Cursed by whom?
According to Paul, the founder of Christianity:
"Christ had redeemed us from the curse of the law, being
made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one
that hanged on a tree." (Galatians 3:13).
"By whom was Jesus cursed?" Most Christians without
hesitation reply "obviously, cursed by people." But, the one
who made that allegation has a different answer.
Paul's hidden answer
Obviously, Paul is not honest while quoting his reference,
ie., Deuteronomy 21:23 "... that is hanged is accursed of
God; ... " He, stealthily, tries to hide "GOD", just to make
it easy for people to accept the connection between the Old
Testament's curse and Jesus. When you accept the connection,
you automatically accept Jesus to be cursed by God Almighty,
without knowing. Because if you make a sober connection
between Deuteronomy 21:23 and Matthew 27:38, Mark 15:27,
Luke 23:33, John 19:18 you will end up with a "God cursed by
What could be the reason for Paul insulting Jesus
indirectly? What could be the reason for Paul distorting
Jesus' teaching by creating the doctrine of the Trinity?
Jesus himself had prophesied the reason with a warning.
The prophecy and warning of Jesus
The Gospels are full of condemnation of and prophetic
warning about Pharisees. Here are some examples:
"How is it that you do not understand that I spoke it not to
you concerning bread, that you should beware of the leaven
of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they
how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but
of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."
"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for
you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you
neither go in yourselves, neither suffer you them that are
entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! ... Woe unto you, you blind guides, ... You
fools and blind: ... Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! You serpents, you generation of vipers ... "
(Matthew 23: 13-33)
"... Beware you of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is
hypocrisy. For there is nothing covered, that shall not be
revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known." (Luke
Here is the Pharisee!
Paul confirms this prophecy by acknowledging that he was a
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees,
and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men
and brethren, I AM a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee ...
Please notice, that he does not say "I WAS a Pharisee."
Here is the hypocrite!
Paul may be the only person in the history of religion that
was proud of his hypocrisy. Dictionaries should substitute
the word Machiavellian with Pauline, since he preceded
Machiavelli. Let us read what this dubious character tells
"While working with Jews, I live like a Jew in order to win
them; and even though I myself am not subject to the Law of
Moses, I live as though I were, when working with those who
are, in order to win them. In the same way, when with
Gentiles I live like a Gentile, outside the Jewish Law, in
order to win Gentiles. This does not mean that I don't obey
God's law; I am really under Christ's law. Among the weak in
faith I become weak like one of them, in order to win them.
So I become all things to all men, that I may save some of
them by any means possible." (1. Corinthians 9:20-22).
If a person "becomes all things to all men, in order to win
them", how can you trust that person? It is obvious that he
became a Christian with Christians in order to win them. But
the real followers of Jesus recognized his evil work and
1. Why follow "a hypocrite, a fool and a blind" Pharisee?
2. What was the real reason that the disciples of Jesus
escaped from Paul? Were they the most cowardly people
among Christians? Why, could the reason not be the
warning of Jesus about Pharisees? "... Beware you of
the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy..."
(Luke 12:1-2) Why don't you beware of the leaven
(doctrine) of a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee?
3. Did Jesus become "all things to all men in order to win
them", like Paul? Did his real disciples become "all
things to all men in order to win them", like Paul?
What is the definition of hypocrisy in your dictionary?
After all, why do you hesitate to call Paul a hypocrite?
4. Why do you call yourself Christian, since it is a name
fabricated by Paul years after Jesus (Acts 11:26)?
What were the disciples of Jesus calling themselves
in the time of Jesus?
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