Re: Why do pentecostals pretend to speak in tongues?

<parakaleo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jpim62p48tn4hpa3tci24tfuhbgdmog5b7@xxxxxxxxxx


Now if you believe that EVERY Christian must cast out devils and EVERY
Christian will speak in new tongues, then you must also believe that
EVERY CHRISTIAN WILL DO THE THINGS IN THE _REST_ OF THE SENTENCE:

Of course, however, the most important one is speaking in tongues for that
is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit indwelling within, which is required
to enter heaven, the rest are special gifts to help and serve your neighbor.

cont

Hmm dore. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU PLAYED WITH SNAKES? HOW MUCH
ARSENIC HAVE YOU DRUNK LATELY?

I have never had the opportunity to "play" with snakes, nor do I seek them
out, and once a Satanist poisoned my coffee, however, it had no affect.

cont

Or maybe this refers to these things happening to SOME Christians in
the future from then. . .No dore, this does NOT fit your position that
tongues is REQUIRED OF EVERY CHRISTIAN.

As I said, if you want to enter heaven, you MUST be full of the Holy Spirit
of GOD, and speaking in tongues is the manifestation of being filled with
the Holy Spirit. The other things are not necessary, but they are a benefit
to having the power of the Holy Spirit to do good works in this life.

cont

In fact, Paul said NOT EVERY CHRISTIAN SPEAKS IN TONGUES:
1 Cor 12:30
30 Does everyone have the gift of healing? Of course not. Does God
give all of us the ability to speak in unknown languages? Can everyone
interpret unknown languages? No!

Paul is NOT God. If you follow Paul, then wait for Paul to come down and
redeem you.

cont

So to believe you we would have to disbelieve Paul. I will believe
Paul, not dore.

Then you have made your choice and Paul is YOUR Lord.

cont

John 14:17
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it
seeth
him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you,
and
shall be in you.
KJV

Since there is NOT ONE WORD ABOUT TONGUES in that passage, it does not
support your case, dore. We Christians (who do NOT speak in tongues)
DO have the Holy Ghost living in us (Jesus PROMISED we do), but NO
PLACE IN THE BIBLE REQUIRES that we speak in tongues to receive the
Holy Ghost. The 3,000, Paul at his conversion, the jailer, and the
eunuch are never said to have spoken in tongues when they received
Jesus Christ (and were baptized in the Holy Ghost). Paul obviously
spoke in tongues later, but in the very detailed account of his
conversion, it is not there.

I guess common sense and using your intellect is beyond you. This scripture
clearly states that the Spirit of truth dwells within the believer and since
tongues is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit within the believer, then if
it is required that the Holy Spirit dwells within you, then you would
naturally speak in tongues. If you don't speak in tongues then the Holy
Spirit does NOT dwell within you. The promises in the Bible were to be
experienced NOT just read. Being converted has nothing to do with having the
Holy Spirit indwelling in you. Conversion is when you come to believe. The
HOLY Spirit can only dwell within those who have repented of all sin, have
stopped sinning, and have become pure and HOLY, so the Holy Spirit could
come into them, otherwise, the Holy Spirit could not, because He, being
HOLY, cannot dwell with iniquity.

cont

YOU claim that, but the Bible never says any such thing. In fact it
clearly says that NOT ALL CHRISTIANS SPEAK IN TONGUES.


No, Paul said that, but Paul isn't God and doesn't make the rules does he?

cont

You contradict scripture, dore.

No, I disagree with Paul.

cont

You receive the Holy Ghost when your receive Jesus Christ. There is
only ONE SINGLE time in the Bible when it happened any other way. And
you ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN if you do not have the Holy Ghost (Romans
8:9).

No, you don't receive the Holy Spirit, when you believe. That is merely the
first step in your walk towards redemption. As I said, the Holy Spirit
cannot dwell with iniquity, because He is HOLY, thus, when you first
believe, you are still not purified, because you have yet to repent of all
of your sins and stop sinning. That requires diligence, commitment,
self-analysis and repentance of all of your darkness and sins and
purification before you can receive the Holy Spirit, which takes time.

cont

If you need to
be pure, righteous and holy to be redeemed into heaven, then you need the
Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not purify me. The Blood of Jesus did that.



Typical hypocritical modern Christian response. The blood offered you the
opportunity to be forgiven of your sins, if you repent. It is NOT instant
purification, for if you still commit sin, then you are NOT pure. The Holy
Spirit, through His purification process, and your willingness to repent and
stop sinning, His guidance, gifts, knowledge, wisdom, righteousness, power
and strength IS what purifies you, for there is NO other way to be pure.

cont

No, the gift of tongues is only ONE of His many gifts, and He gives
the gifts as HE sees fit, not the same gifts to everyone.

1 Cor 12:4-11

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are
differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are
diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in
all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for
the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through
the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by
the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another
prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds
of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and
the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one
individually as He wills.
NKJV

Do YOU have ANY of these gifts? It is unlikely that you have any of these
gifts without having the gift of tongues first.

cont

If you want to cast out devils,
then you need the power of the Holy Spirit to do so and

I haven't met any devils so haven't had the need to do so. Perhaps if
I meet YOU in person, I will have that need and God will give me the
gift of casting out devils. :-)


First you need to have righteousness to cast out the devils in your OWN soul
and spirit, then you will have the knowledge and wisdom to cast them out
from others. And this world being completely evil and full of darkness, that
you haven't met any with devils in others, is evidence that you do NOT have
discernment of spirits, for there are many. Clearly you have NOT cast out
the devils that plague your own heart and mind.

cont

thus if you need the
power of the Holy Spirit, to be a follower, to cast out demons, to know
truth, then His manifestation will be through the gift of tongues.

Only according to YOUR perverted claim, not according to ANYTHING IN
THE BIBLE.

No, according to experience, reality and living in the kingdom of God is
this truth manifested to the TRUE believers and followers of Christ. For if
you had the gift, then you would be able to experience the power of the Holy
Spirit and know that this is true.

cont

I have the Holy Ghost, as "evidenced" by the DRASTIC change God has
made in my life in the past 32+ years. "BY THEIR FRUITS you shall
know them," Jesus said. And the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT has been the
character of my life for 32+ years now, where just the opposite fruit
was manifest before I received Jesus and His Holy Ghost.

The change is wrought from your faith and from what you have sought and
chosen, the Holy Spirit and His power is SO much more than and at a much
higher level in the kingdom of God, than just by changes in your life.
--
Dore

www.dorewilliamson.com


<parakaleo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:jpim62p48tn4hpa3tci24tfuhbgdmog5b7@xxxxxxxxxx
"Dore" <dorewilliamson@xxxxxxxxxxx>, popped up with this stuff in
alt.religion.christian :
<parakaleo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:o0fd62l72vfen0114ni1rv8v93c9u86p14@xxxxxxxxxx

The Bible NEVER EVER SAYS ANYWHERE that speaking in tongues is a
requirement for ANYTHING AT ALL.

IF YOU THINK IT IS, show us SCRIPTURES that say so.


Do you have any common sense and read the scriptures with seriousness and
consideration, or does the scriptures have to say things outright so you
you
don't have to THINK or SEEK at all?

Mark 16:17
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
KJV

Now if you believe that EVERY Christian must cast out devils and EVERY
Christian will speak in new tongues, then you must also believe that
EVERY CHRISTIAN WILL DO THE THINGS IN THE _REST_ OF THE SENTENCE:

Mark 16:18
18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it
will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they
will recover."
NKJV

Hmm dore. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU PLAYED WITH SNAKES? HOW MUCH
ARSENIC HAVE YOU DRUNK LATELY?

Or maybe this refers to these things happening to SOME Christians in
the future from then. . .No dore, this does NOT fit your position that
tongues is REQUIRED OF EVERY CHRISTIAN.

In fact, Paul said NOT EVERY CHRISTIAN SPEAKS IN TONGUES:
1 Cor 12:30
30 Does everyone have the gift of healing? Of course not. Does God
give all of us the ability to speak in unknown languages? Can everyone
interpret unknown languages? No!
NLT

So to believe you we would have to disbelieve Paul. I will believe
Paul, not dore.

John 14:17
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it
seeth
him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you,
and
shall be in you.
KJV

Since there is NOT ONE WORD ABOUT TONGUES in that passage, it does not
support your case, dore. We Christians (who do NOT speak in tongues)
DO have the Holy Ghost living in us (Jesus PROMISED we do), but NO
PLACE IN THE BIBLE REQUIRES that we speak in tongues to receive the
Holy Ghost. The 3,000, Paul at his conversion, the jailer, and the
eunuch are never said to have spoken in tongues when they received
Jesus Christ (and were baptized in the Holy Ghost). Paul obviously
spoke in tongues later, but in the very detailed account of his
conversion, it is not there.

1 John 3:3
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he
is
pure.
KJV
It is in Jesus Christ that we are made pure. Not in speaking in
tongues.

If you claim to believe in Christ, and follow Him, then you will speak
with
tongues.

YOU claim that, but the Bible never says any such thing. In fact it
clearly says that NOT ALL CHRISTIANS SPEAK IN TONGUES.

1 Cor 12:30
30 Does everyone have the gift of healing? Of course not. Does God
give all of us the ability to speak in unknown languages? Can everyone
interpret unknown languages? No!
NLT

You contradict scripture, dore.

If you are a true follower of Christ, then you need to receive the
Holy Spirit of truth, otherwise, you can't have God's truths.

You receive the Holy Ghost when your receive Jesus Christ. There is
only ONE SINGLE time in the Bible when it happened any other way. And
you ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN if you do not have the Holy Ghost (Romans
8:9).

If you need to
be pure, righteous and holy to be redeemed into heaven, then you need the
Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not purify me. The Blood of Jesus did that.

The Holy Spirit manifests Himself through His gifts, the gift
of tongues being the first of His gifts.

No, the gift of tongues is only ONE of His many gifts, and He gives
the gifts as HE sees fit, not the same gifts to everyone.

1 Cor 12:4-11

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are
differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are
diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in
all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for
the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through
the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by
the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another
prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds
of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and
the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one
individually as He wills.
NKJV

If you want to cast out devils,
then you need the power of the Holy Spirit to do so and

I haven't met any devils so haven't had the need to do so. Perhaps if
I meet YOU in person, I will have that need and God will give me the
gift of casting out devils. :-)

thus if you need the
power of the Holy Spirit, to be a follower, to cast out demons, to know
truth, then His manifestation will be through the gift of tongues.

Only according to YOUR perverted claim, not according to ANYTHING IN
THE BIBLE.

If you
don't have this gift, you don't have the Holy Spirit, if you don't have
the
Holy Spirit, then you can't get into heaven.

I have the Holy Ghost, as "evidenced" by the DRASTIC change God has
made in my life in the past 32+ years. "BY THEIR FRUITS you shall
know them," Jesus said. And the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT has been the
character of my life for 32+ years now, where just the opposite fruit
was manifest before I received Jesus and His Holy Ghost.

Sorry dore, but your "stuff" is heresy, "stuff" you are adding to the
Bible to match your own religion's teachings.

parakaleo


.

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