Re: Richard Dawkins
- From: "Jong Kim" <rhl71@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 01:22:20 -0700
"quibbler" <quibbler247@xxxxxxxxx> wrote...
art@xxxxxxxxxxxx says...
(Reclaiming Science from Darwinism; Kenneth Poppe):
These blind alleys dismissed, the book (textbook) usually gives
the correct view for the origin of cellular life, using Pasteur's famous
"soup in a flask" experiment.
Pasteur did not attempt and could not attempt to study abiogenesis over
extended periods of time. He proved that life does not arise in a matter
of days or weeks from non-life, but this does not prove that no self-
replicating molecules could emerge over billions of years. Note that
this has nothing to do with evolution or "darwinism", since
evolution starts with the premise that self-replicating systems already
exist and describes how they are modified. Abiogenesis describes
possible chemical and physical route by which molecular systems might
self-organize and become capable of autonomous self-replication. So, yet
another chestnut of creationist stupidity has been shot down in flames.
Not so. Here's more evidence that Art Bulla is right, namely James Clerk
Maxwell's comments on natural molecular Evolution vs. divine work of
Creation:
No theory of evolution can be formed to account for the similarity of
molecules, for evolution necessarily implies continuous change, and the
molecule is incapable of growth or decay, of generation or destruction.
None of the processes of Nature, since the time when Nature began, have
produced the slightest difference in the properties of any molecule. We are
therefore unable to ascribe either the existence of the molecules or the
identity of their properties to any of the causes which we call natural.
On the other hand, the exact equality of each molecule to all others of the
same kind gives it, as Sir John Herschel has well said, the essential
character of a manufactured article, and precludes the idea of its being
eternal and self-existent.
Thus we have been led, along a strictly scientific path, very near to the
point at which Science must stop,-not that Science is debarred from
studying the internal mechanism of a molecule which she cannot take
to pieces, any more than from investigating an organism which she cannot
put together. But in tracing back the history of matter, Science is arrested
when she assures herself, on the one hand, that the molecule has been
made, and, on the other, that it has not been made by any of the processes
we call natural.
Science is incompetent to reason upon the creation of matter itself out of
nothing. We have reached the utmost limits of our thinking faculties when
we have admitted that because matter cannot be eternal and self-existent
it must have been created. [360] It is only when we contemplate, not matter
in itself, but the form in which it actually exists, that our mind finds
something on which it can lay hold.
That matter, as such, should have certain fundamental properties,-that it
should exist in space and be capable of motion, that its motion should be
persistent, and so on,-are truths which may, for anything we know, be of the
kind which metaphysicians call necessary. We may use our knowledge of
such truths for purposes of deduction, but we have no data for speculating
as to their origin.
But that there should be exactly so much matter and no more in every
molecule of hydrogen is a fact of a very different order. We have here
a particular distribution of matter-a collocation-to use the expression of
Dr. Chalmers, of things which we have no difficulty in imagining to have
been arranged otherwise.
===
collocation, n.
placing together or side by side.
===
The form and dimensions of the orbits of the planets, for instance, are not
determined by any law of nature, but depend upon a particular collocation of
matter. The same is the case with respect to the size of the earth, from
which the standard of what is called the metrical system has been derived.
But these astronomical and terrestrial magnitudes are far inferior in
scientific importance to that most fundamental of all standards which forms
the base of the molecular system. Natural causes, as we know, are at work,
which tend to modify, if they do not at length destroy, all the arrangements
and dimensions of the earth and the whole solar system.
===
Admitting heat to be a form of energy, the second law asserts that
it is impossible, by the unaided action of natural processes, to
transform
any part of the heat of a body into mechanical work, except by allowing
heat to pass from that body into another at a lower temperature.
~~James Clerk Maxwell (Theory of Heat, 1871)
===
But though in the course of ages catastrophes have occurred and may
yet occur in the heavens, though ancient systems may be dissolved and
new systems evolved out of their ruins, the molecules out of which these
systems are built-the foundation-stones of the material universe-remain
unbroken and unworn. They continue this day as they were created-perfect
in number and measure and weight; and from the ineffaceable characters
impressed on them we may learn that those aspirations after accuracy
in measurement, and justice in action, which we reckon among our noblest
attributes as men, are ours because they are [361] essential constituents of
the image of Him who in the beginning created, not only the heaven and
the earth, but the materials of which heaven and earth consist.
~~James Clerk Maxwell (The Life of, p. 176-177, 1882)
The above quote is taken from:
the famous "Discourse on Molecules," delivered before the British
Association at Bradford in September 1873, which has been more often
quoted than, perhaps, any other of his writings. This address was
extremely rich in scientific matter, but its chief interest lay in the
concluding
paragraphs, which may be said to indicate more clearly than any other of
Maxwell's writings the position of his mind towards certain doctrines
maintained by scientific men:-
~~Lewis Campbell and William Garnett (The Life of James Clerk Maxwell, p.
176, 1882)
TO PROFESSOR LEWIS CAMPBELL.
Glenlair, Dalbeattie, 26th September 1874.
....
It may also be worth knowing that the aether cannot be molecular.
If it were, it would be a gas, and a pint of it would have the same
properties as regards heat, etc., as a pint of air, except that it
would not be so heavy.
~~James Clerk Maxwell (The Life of, p. 189, 1882)
James Clerk Maxwell (1878 Encyclopaedia Britannica):
Whatever difficulties we may have in forming a consistent idea of the
constitution of the aether, there can be no doubt that the interplanetary
and interstellar spaces are occupied by a material substance of body.
Wisdom of Solomon 11:17 (1611 King James Apocrypha):
For thy Almighty hand that made the world of matter without form, ...
Hebrews 11:3 (1534 Tyndale NT Translation):
Through faith we understand ... that things which are seen,
were made of things which are not seen.
--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
Francis Galton, whose mission it seems to be to ride other men's hobbies
to death, has invented the felicitous expression "structureless germs."
~~James Clerk Maxwell (The Life of, p. 189, 1882)
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843-44 Pg.373:
.... when men open their lips against these truths they do not injure me, but
injure themselves. To the law and to the testimony, for these principles
are poured out all over the Scriptures. When things that are of the
greatest importance are passed over by the weak-minded men without even a
thought, I want to see truth in all its bearings and hug it to my bosom. I
believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned
for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.
James Clerk Maxwell (The Life of, p. 333, 1882):
1878.
....
But when thy Science lifts her pinions
In Speculation's wild dominions,
We treasure every dictum thou emittest,
While down the stream of Evolution
We drift, expecting no solution
But that of the survival of the fittest.
Till, in the twilight of the gods,
When earth and sun are frozen clods,
When, all its energy degraded,
Matter to aether shall have faded;
We, that is, all the work we've done,
As waves in aether, shall for ever run
In ever-widening [322] spheres through heavens beyond the sun.
===
pinion, n.
a bird's wing, especially the outer segment.
===
http://www.sonnetsoftware.com/bio/maxbio.pdf
Journal of Discourses, Vol.1, Pg.118, Brigham Young, February 27, 1853:
The principle opposite to that of eternal increase from the beginning, leads
down to hell; the person decreases, loses his knowledge, tact, talent, and
ultimately, in a short period of time, is lost; he returns to his mother
earth, his name is forgotten. But where, Oh! where is his spirit? I will
not now take the time to follow his destiny; but here, strong language could
be used, for when the Lord Jesus Christ shall be revealed, after the
termination of the thousand years' rest, he will summon the armies of heaven
for the conflict, he will come forth in flaming fire, he will descend to
execute the mandates of an incensed God, and, amid the thunderings of the
wrath of Omnipotence, roll up the heavens as a scroll, and destroy death,
and him that has the power of it. The rebellious will be thrown back into
their native element, there to remain myriads of years before their dust
will again be revived, before they will be re-organized. Some might argue
that this principle would lead to the re-organization of Satan, and all the
devils. I say nothing about this, only what the Lord says--that when he
comes, "he will destroy death, and him that has the power of it." It cannot
be annihilated; you cannot annihilate matter. If you could, it would prove
there was empty space. If philosophers could annihilate the least
conceivable amount of matter, they could then prove there was the minutest
vacuum, or empty space; but there is not even that much, and it is beyond
the power of man to prove that there is any.
Journal of Wilford Woodruff:
February 17, 1856: ... They would continue to decrease until they became
dissolved back into their native element and lost their identity (the second
death).
THE REVELATIONS OF JESUS CHRIST
SECTION 43.
REVELATION ON THE SECOND DEATH
REVELATION on the second death. Destruction of the spirit in hell.
Promise of translation. Received Spring, 1982, Archdale, N.C.
1 Thus saith the Lord, Yea, there is that second death which pertaineth
unto the destruction of the spirit of man in that hell spoken of, for it is
that
spirit shall return unto the native element from which it was formed or
begotten by me in that day, saith the Lord God.
2 And it is that this death cometh upon all those who deny me in this day,
saith the Lord God.
3 And it is that this death cometh upon all those who deny me and persist
therein and who will not repent, neither can they, saith the Lord God of
Israel who it is that doth speak unto thee, O man, whom I the Lord God have
created in mine own image, even the image of mine Only Begotten Son
have I created thee.
4 For it is that these are they who have denied the Holy Ghost and for whom
there is no salvation.
5 And the resurrection shall come upon all but these who are sons of
perdition, and the end thereof no man knoweth save he or she shall be made
a partaker thereof, and the height or the depth or the misery thereof no man
knoweth, nevertheless I the Lord God show it by vision unto many and shut it
up straightway again.
6 And all who deny these things, saith the Lord, shall partake of that
second death and they shall not escape my wrath which shall be poured out
upon them that they be utterly anhialated back to the native element from
which they are formed.
7 For all, saith the Lord, who deny these Revelations which I the Lord God
have caused to be put into the world as a witness of me shall deny the
Spirit and shall not be redeemed in the resurrection but shall go away into
that lake of fire with the devil and his angels and there their torment is
as a flame.
8 For mine anger, saith the Lord shall even be spent upon them, in my
terrible fury and might which cannot be stopped by man in the flesh, and
their worm dieth not, and the flame thereof ascendeth up forever and is not
quenched until they die, saith the Lord, even the Second Death, according to
that torment of which hath been written.
9 For I the Lord thy God shall not be mocked by them who are under my feet
in that day that the earth shall be redeemed, even from the fall thereof.
10 Even so, beware how thou holdest the oracles of God! For it must be
unto this generation, saith the Lord on the one hand, even as it is one
the other, even Eternal Life, and the fruits thereof, or Death and its
portion
on the other, and ye of this generation are free before me, saith the Lord,
to choose, either life in my presence, or the second death in the presence
of him whom ye served delisciously, even that devil spoken of.
11 And if it is that ye hearken, saith the Lord, and are obedient unto my
servant in these things which he shall command thee in my name, saith the
Lord, by the Authority Of The Holy Priesthood Which Is After The Order Of
Melchizedec, then it is that the second death shall have no power over thee.
12 And it is that if ye are obedient, saith the Lord, in all things, then it
is that ye shall be redeemed also from the fall and dwell with me and my
angels in regions of bliss and light forever and ever.
13 And it is that the first death, which is the death of the body which is
physical, shall not have power over thee at all.
14 For it is that ye shall become quickened by me and by my power, saith the
Lord, which power is after the Order of an Endless Life.
15 For I the Lord thy God am the creator and Father of all life and all life
is in me, that thy body, O man, is changed and quickened that it shall never
die, if it be that ye are obedient unto me through him whom I have appointed
and ordained unto this power through the ministration of messengers or
angels from my presence, saith the Lord God of Israel, as anciently.
16 And this is according to the pattern of that which I the Lord God did
unto Enoch and the City thereof as recorded in the eleventh chapter of the
Book of Hebrews by the hand of my servant Paul, who is now with me, saith
the Lord, in the might and power of my glory which is beyond the mind of man
to comprehend in the fulness thereof.
17 Even so. Amen.
.
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