Re: Questions protesents won't awnser

Christian continues with his pontificating....

And the joke of his posts can be pointed out very easily.

I said:

Read what Jesus said in Matthew Chapter 5.

16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works,
and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and
shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the
kingdom of heaven.

Notice the actual words of Jesus Christ. Until Heaven and Earth pass, not
one little bit of the law will change.

What was Christian's answer??

And too, notice that this is all said BEFORE CHRIST'S CRUCIFICITION
AND RESURRECTION. Jesus was speaking to JEWS WHO _ARE_ UNDER THE LAW,
NOT us Christians who are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.

But now what is he saying??

Jesus told us to Love God, and Love our neighbor. That covers 9 out
of the 10 commandments.

But Jesus said that before his crucifixation and resurrection, so it does
not apply to us christians who are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.

That is the total stupidity of Christian's whole argument.

Jesus himself tells us that not one little bit of the law will change until
Heaven and Earth pass away.

But Christian, says that was before the crucifixation, thus does not apply
to.

But in fact, every thing Jesus taught was before the crucifixation. Thus the
Royal law, no longer applies either.

That is where Christian's whole argument becomes nothing but a twist of
scripture to justify the actions he already practices.

He then says to me!!

I suppose if you consider SCRIPTURE to be "amusing," that might be so. I
follow SCRIPTURE, not you.

Like all so called religionists he trys to put words in my mouth.

What I said was:

You have some very amusing ideas.

I not only find your ideas of what scripture says, amusing, but your whole
line of logic is a joke.

Like religionists, you try and give biblical sources for your ideas.

Jesus clearly says that all the law is in effect UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH
PASS.

Jesus said that!!

SHOW ME A VERSE WHERE HE CANCELS THAT!!

You can't.

You in turn run off and quote verses from Paul, and from Luke (Acts).

Neither Paul or Luke ever knew Jesus, ever met Jesus, or ever studied with
Jesus.

Until you can show me what authority Paul had or Luke had, other than their
own writings, then stop wasting your time, and my time.

Jesus Christ said that UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, every littel bit of the
law is in effect.

Jesus Christ never cancelled that. If his death was going to change that,
Jesus would have told us that. But he didn't.

No amount of twisting scripture will ever change that.









> >> >> And too, notice that this is all said BEFORE CHRIST'S CRUCIFICITION
> >> >> AND RESURRECTION. Jesus was speaking to JEWS WHO _ARE_ UNDER THE
LAW,
> >> >> NOT us Christians who are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW.
> >> >
> >> >Where did Jesus ever say this????? Jesus was speaking to his
disciples,
> >and
> >> >yes they were Jews, but as believers in Jesus, they were the first
> >> >christains.
> >> >
> >> >How did his words change??
> >
> > His words didn't. Their STATUS did. They were REBORN. Jesus was
> >crucified and they became Christians AFTER THIS.
> >
> >
> You posted:
> >So what are you saying. Once Jesus was crucified, the law no longer
> >applied??
>
> EXACTLY. The law does not apply to those of us (CHRISTIANS) who are
> no longer under the Law.
> >
> >Now stop and think. All of Jesus message was before he died.
> >You are saying that when he died on the cross, that cancelled the law as
far
> >as christians are concerned.
>
> No, it changed our status.
>
> When I lived in Germany, I lived under German law. When I moved back
> to the USA, the German law still exists, but I am no longer under it.
> I could not (although I WOULD not) feed my children beer at age 12,
> something that was completely legal if done within my home in Germany.
> German laws still exist, but I am no longer under them.
>
> Jewish Law still exists, but I am no longer under it either. As with
> the German law, my status is different. Now my sins are forgiven, I
> am under Christ, not the Law. The Law was our TUTOR, and we are no
> longer under a TUTOR; we are under Jesus Christ.
>
>
> >
> >Now you can't have it both ways. Did his death cancel the law?
>
> No, it changed my position. The law is still there, and the Jews (and
> non-believers) are still under it. But we Christians are not,
> according to the Bible:
>
> Gal 3:21-25
> 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if
> there had been a law given which could have given life, truly
> righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has
> confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ
> might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were
> kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward
> be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ,
> that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we
> are no longer under a tutor .
> NKJV
>
> I'm sorry if you don't believe that.
>
> >
> >You say that what he said before his death, does not apply, so you wipe
out
> >where he tells us not on little bit of the law will change.
> >
> >But that also wipes out anything he said as to law.
> >
> >Therefore if one is a christian, Jesus death cancelled us having to live
> >under the law. This would mean any laws Jesus gave us, as that was before
he
> >died. I mean he did say not one little bit of the law would change until
> >earth and heaven have both passed away.
>
> All of this junk are conclusions you are jumping to, nothing more. No
> substance in scripture, no substance in reality anywhere else either.
> >
> >Using your logic, a christian has no laws to obey!!
>
> Jesus told us to Love God, and Love our neighbor. That covers 9 out
> of the 10 commandments.
>
> It does NOT still require us to offer sin sacrifices, leave our land
> fallow every 7th year, not eat pork, or any of the rest of the 613 +
> or - parts of the Old Testament Law.
>
> Do YOU follow all of those laws? Why not, if you are still under the
> Law? Or do you just pick a few here, a few there, and not the rest,
> just whatever is convenient for you to decide to follow? When's the
> last time you made a wave offering? A heave offering? Which year did
> you forgive the debts of everyone who owed you anything out of the
> last seven years? Hmmmm. Methinks you probably don't do ANY of those
> things.
> >
> >A very interesting concept???
>
> Not nearly as interesting as hearing you explain how YOU keep the 613.
> . .
> >
> >> IF YOU want to be as they were when Jesus said this, you may go get
> >> your unspotted lamb, your dove, or your ram and head to the nearest
> >> Jewish Temple to have it offered for your sins.
> >>
> >
> > Mine are taken care of in a different way. Jesus paid for mine.
> >
>
> You posted:
> >And using your logic, as a christian, he also paid for mine, and the law
no
> >longer applies to me. I mean I am not Jewish, and I am a christian.
> >
> >You have some very amusing ideas.
>
> I suppose if you consider SCRIPTURE to be "amusing," that might be so.
> I follow SCRIPTURE, not you.
> >> >>
> >> >> Gal 3:20-25
> >> >> 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
> >> >> 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For
if
> >> >> there had been a law given which could have given life, truly
> >> >> righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has
> >> >> confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ
> >> >> might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we
were
> >> >> kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would
afterward
> >> >> be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to
Christ,
> >> >> that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we
> >> >> are no longer under a tutor.
> >> >> NKJV
> >> >>
> >> >> If you have no faith in Jesus Christ, you are UNDER the Law. "25
But
> >> >> after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
> >> >> Now we are under the TWO commandments of Christ. . .Love God, Love
> >> >> Neighbor.
> >> >
> >> >So, you totally ignore that Jesus says that the Law is in effect until
> >Earth
> >> >and Heaven have passed away, and to support this you quote Paul??
> >>
> >> The Law is still there. The Jews are bound by it; they have not
> >> received Jesus. Do you not believe the parts of the Bible given by
> >> Paul?
> >
> >Now when you say this. You are saying Jews are bound by the law, because
> >they have not received Jesus??
> >
> >How do you explain Acts 21: 20 - Many thousands of Jews, there are which
> >believe; and they are Zealous for the law.
> >
> >Amazing. You have Jews that believe in Jesus (christian Jews) and they
are
> >zealous for the law.
>
> And they were told at another point that they didn't need to be
> circumcized, and that asking other Christians to keep the Law was to
> put an "undue burden" on them that is not required.
>
> Acts 15:24-25
> 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled
> you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be
> circumcised and keep the law" - to whom we gave no such commandment -
> NKJV
> >
> >What did James the brother of the Lord and first head of the Jerusalem
> >Church say.
> >
> >James 2: 10 - WOW, if you break one point of the law, you have broken it
> >all.
>
> James 2:8-13
> 8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You
> shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show
> partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as
> transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet
> stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not
> commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit
> adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the
> law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of
> liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no
> mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment
> NKJV
>
> Hmm, he is talking about judging one another, not keeping the Jewish
> Law. He compares to Jewish laws, but he does NOT SAY AT ALL that we
> are under it. We are under the "royal law," and he quotes Jesus' Law,
> "you shall love your neighbor as yourself." THEN HE SAYS if you keep
> the whole law (both of them), but stumble in one tiny point (a breath
> mark in the Greek), you are guilty of all. But does he then tell you
> to go sacrifice a dove? Naah.
> >
> >Now if you are saying that Jewish Christians had to live by the law,
while
> >gentile christians didn't, that would mean that Jesus did not atone for
> >Jewish christians.
>
> Do you make this garbage up as you go? Oh yes, it appears you do. . .
> >
> >It's really very simple. Your argument is so full of holes that it is
hardly
> >worth my time.
> >
> It is not "my" argument; it is what Christians have believed for about
> 2,000 years now.
> >
> >> >Paul who never met Jesus, never knew Jesus and never studied under
> >Jesus??
> >
> I posted:
> > His 3 years in the desert, his little bit of blindness on Damascas
> > road? You don't like Paul? What other parts of the Bible do you
> > reject?
> >
> You posted:
> >My point which you conviently ignore, is that Paul has no authority.
>
> Who says? You? a 21st century heretic? Naah, I have no interest in
> "unique and different" gospels from wonderful discoveries made by 21st
> century heretics.
>
> you posted:
> >All we
> >have about him, is his own writings. Plus what Luke writes, and Luke was
a
> >follower of Paul. Thus the blindness on the Damascus Road is only Paul's
> >story.
>
> And what Peter wrote. Of course, YOU think that Paul, Luke, and Peter
> (oh yes, and Polycarp and other first century Christians too) were all
> part of some kind of "conspiracy" that you, the "revelator" have
> recently discovered through your own special revelation.
>
> I don't buy it. It would be completely irrational for me to do so.
> >
> >My point is simply when Paul contradicts Jesus, then I follow what the
> >Saviour taught.
>
> So you follow Paul now too, since Paul NEVER contradicts Jesus?
> >
> >Jesus said that every little bit of the law is in effect until Heaven and
> >Earth pass.
> >
> >No where does Jesus say, that you get to pick and choose.
>
> Neither does Paul. But YOU seem to. Let's see now, we'll forget the
> wave and heave offerings, the Jubilee year, the passover, the . .
> .(you fill in the spaces). . .and we'll just keep these. . .(again,
> you fill in the spaces). IF YOU THINK YOU MUST KEEP THE LAW, YOU MUST
> KEEP EVERY LITTLE BIT OF IT, SIN OFFERINGS AND ALL.
>
> And I'll just bet YOU DON'T!
>
> >If you do some reading, you would find that Paul tells us in Romans 16:
11,
> >that Herodian is his kinsman!!
>
> One of MY kinsmen (a great uncle) was a murderer and a polytheist.
> Does that mean I must be one too?
>
> What a JOKE!
> >
> >Now read Josephus. Wars of the Jews 2: 17 : 4 - Amoung whom the most
eminent
> >were Saul (Paul), and Antipas, and Costabarus, who were the King's
kindred.
> >
> >WOW, confirmation of what Paul himself tells us.
>
> WHEE. He also tells us HE HIMSELF WAS THE GREATEST OF SINNERS. Are
> you now going to try to tell us that Jesus didn't forgive HIS SINS
> EITHER?
> >
> >How come you don't mention this when you brag up your hero Paul??
>
> Because it is not relevant. Was your grandfather, Hitler? Would it
> have made YOU just like HIM if he were?
>
> What a joke! Your "logic" falls in the toilet with the rest of your
> made-up theology.
> >
> >> >So in effect you are telling us that somehow, Paul a man, has the
> >authority
> >> >to change what Jesus taught us??
> >>
> >> I've never said any such thing. Paul pointed out our change in status
> >> from "under the Law," in which we must take our sin offerings in to be
> >> sacrificed. . .the tutor, to NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW (which still
> >> exists for non-Christians) no longer under the Tutor.
> >
> >Again, Read Acts 21: 20 - There were thousands of Jews, who believed and
> >were zealous for the law.
>
> There were, and they were corrected in time.
> >
> >You make Jesus out to be a racist!! One law for Jewish christians and
> >another for Gentile christians??
>
> No, YOU made that up, I did not.
> It's late and I have phone calls to make to another state where I will
> be tomorrow and probably the rest of the week, to set appointments.
>
> You have made up a religion especially for yourself. Christianity has
> never held your position, still does not. You are a "loner," a person
> without any credibility at all.
>
> In the Name of Jesus Christ,
> Christian


.

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