Re: Ford Internet radio

Steve,


DAB sounds worse than FM schreef:
For a start, once installed, DAB (like FM) is free. Internet radio
presumably via the mobile phone network costs money, and quite a lot
if you consider the amount of data you'll be pulling if listening to
internet radio all the time.
Mobile broadband via 3G currently costs:
3 GB = £15
7 GB = £25
unlimited = £30
Right. And how many people do you think will be willing to pay even as
less as 15 pound a month to listen to radio, while you can get for
free
on DAB or FM?

You're missing the point, which is that people subscribe to broadband
anyway, and Internet radio is effectively thrown in for free - it's exactly
the same as subscribing to fixed-line broadband, you don't subscribe
*specifically to get* Internet radio, you just use it because you can and
it's free.

But the problem is that for mobile internet, your account is linked to
your simcard.

What are you going to do? Take out the SIM-card from your mobile phone
and stuff it in your radio, just because you want to listen to radio?



... so someone with a 3GB mobile
broadband package could listen to Internet radio comfortably when
they're away from home and away from a Wi-Fi network

Right. Have you ever used a 3G-network for real?

Yes. Have you heard of HSDPA?

Sure, we have one of these nice GPRS/EDGE/UMTS/HDPDA card for our laptop
computer when we are on duty, so that can we intervene from whereever
necessairy in case we get called.

So, yes, I do can compaire the quality of the network coverage in
different places.




Even getting a descent and stable 2G or 2.5G GPRS or EDGE-based
connection outside the urban centers is difficult enough as it is.

No it's not, or at least it's not where I'ev been.

So you have actually done the test: take out your laptop in some house
in rural England and stick in a UMTS-card.


And you got 2 Mbps HSPDA connectivity?
Right.



And as competition hots up as more people subscribe to mobile
broadband the prices will come down and the bandwidth caps will go up
Radio-spectrum is a limited resource, and the more users there is, the
greater demand there will be for it, so prices go DOWN?

As the percentage of households in the UK with broadband went from 0% to the
53% it is now, prices dropped, so yes.

But, of course, that is due to the fact that bottleneck on a
internet-network is the shared part of the internet backbones (i.e. the
shared links of the backbone networks) where the migration from copper
to fibre resulted in a speed-increases from 2 Mbps E1-links to 34 Mbps
E3, to STM1 ATM and now to ge or 10ge!

In wireless internet, the bottleneck is the radio-link; so point me to
the technology where the bps/Hz went up by 500 in 10 years.




... and the reason why
the bandwidth caps have increased dramatically and the value for
money has improved dramatically has been due to the roll out of HSDPA
Ah? Please explain how HSPDA helps over UMTS for a 64 Kbps continues
stream?

HSDPA uses turbo coding for a start, so it's more robust than UMTS.

Do you need turbocoding for 64 Kbps?

I always thought that UMTS was designed to offer at least 384 Kbps
(i.eg. for video on mobile devices).




... and there's
more new mobile technologies on the way to increase speeds further,
and that'll lower the prices and increase the bandwidth caps again.
There's a 4G prototype system that's been demonstrated transmitting
at 5 Gbps in a 100 MHz channel. That's not a typo. That's 5 Gbps.
To bad the frequency-blocks for mobile communication are only 5 Mhz
and
not 100 MHz.

Then 4G will be used in new spectrum, obviously.

So you mean you again proposing a ghost technology that does not exist
on frequencies which are not there?


BTW where exactly do you think that this 100 Mhz of dedicated
radio-spectrum will come from?



... The system is about 70 times
more spectrally efficient than DAB.
Which makes radio over mobile internet only interesting if you have
less then 70 listeners per radio-station.

Actually, if you include the fact that 40 kbps AAC+ provides the same level
of audio quality as 128 kbps MP2, the 4G system is 250-times more efficient
at carrying digital radio stations as DAB is.

Please do not change the subject. You know very well we are discussing
the bitrate on the transport-layer, don't you.



Also, you're assuming that the UK only has one mobile phone base station,
but I think it has a few more than 1.

How interesting.

So how many 3G base-stations do you need to provide the same coverage of
one DAB-site?



And if the mobile phone networks want to use their spectrum more efficiently
then they've got broadcast technologies available to them, such as:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7240878.stm

This is not radio over wireless internet, is it?

It's broadcasting on the UMTS TDD radio-spectrum (1900-1920 and
2010-2025 Mhz).

BTW. It's the same piece of spectrum the satellite-broadcasters want to
use for S-DMB and DVB-SH, and this is for video, and for subscription
services!!
It's also the radio-spectrum that the phone-companies want to use for
their picocells.


We simply pay them to deliver the streams to us. How they do it is up to
them. We will be the ones paying, so it's up to us what streams we request.

Euh. It seams you misread the article. This is just plain broadcasting
where THEY descide what whey want to broadcast, at what bitrate and at
what price.

It just happens they want to use frequencies that are in theory already
allocated for UMTS.




And secondly, getting a reliable data signal at sufficient bit-rate
as you drive around is not going to happen any time soon.
The 3G networks have similar to or better coverage than DAB.

For some reason, I have the impression you have never really used 3
for real, have you?

Yes, I was on 3 for a year or two.

And why do you think "three" uses mixed GSM-EDGE/UMTS phones?

And why are there three different coverage-maps on their website:
voice/text (2G), video (3G UMTS) and "turbo" (3.5G HSPDA) ???


How much of rural England, Wales or Scotland has 3G or 3.5G coverage?




Cheerio! Kr. Bonne.
.

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