Re: Gonna start giving credit to LOSERS again?

On Jan 24, 1:45 am, "olde.sault" <Olde.Sa...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 23, 5:31 pm, Igor The Terrible





<igor_the_terri...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 23, 5:37 pm, Rich <n...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Brilliant.
That's how this whole mess got started.  Home loans given to people with no
money, no jobs, no HOPE of paying for them.

Well, after 30 fucking years you would think that the elitists would
have a clue about what happens to an economy running under capitalism
when you screw the middle and working classes of FAIR and REASONABLE
wages.  $7.00 - 8.00/hr is NOT reasonable based on what it costs to
live in this country.  When you look at the income gaps in this
country vs, ANY other industrialized country in the world, it should
tell you something.

Frankly, I'm surprised this bull*** went on for as long as it did
without a revolution to the same scale it took to bring the French
aristocracy to their senses back in the early to mid 1700s.  If it
weren't for political correctness instilled and poisoning the minds of
the average American, there would be more heads rolling down Wall
Street and the rest of midtown Manhattan than you'd want to shake
someone else's stick at.   Unfortunately, a violent revolution is what
it IS going to take ensure this stupid fucking country in keeping its
sovereignty.

If we lose it, oh well.  It's not the first time a world power got its
ass handed to them.  So what if we become some other country's bitch
for a few decades.  And if we do lose America, we will lose it because
of the choices we made.  Rather than dragging unscrupulous, treasonous
CEOs and senior management of public corporations, Wall street
insiders, and rotten-to-the-core politicians out into the streets and
publicly executing them, we throw money, we don't even have yet, at
them then bail out their going concerns.   Se a pattern forming here?
Duh!!!!

Try and make your posts readable Igor - I mean brief

It's a short life

Rich has got the bull by the horns One must live within one's income
and not borrow what can't be paid back There are not many fairy
godmothers around and Santa comes only once a year and can't visit
everybody

OS- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry I can't be brief on this one, but point taken.

While I agree with you on all counts but that in itself is where the
problem lies. If you remember your econ 101, you certainly couldn't
have escaped the dichotomies of Marxism and Capitalism (as Adam Smith
proposed it).

Free markets work on most things in the economy, some things they
don't. Health care is an overwhelming proof that it doesn't. Over
1/3 of our nation is uninsured and/or underinsured. As a part of
compensation packages, health care is also putting a strain on
employers in their ability to hire new employees.

Not to digress from the topic, wages are and always have been, the
single biggest argument on the block when it comes to lending.
However, are wages something that can be dictated by free markets? On
the surface one could say yes. However, when you dig, poke and prod
in the circular flow of a capitalist economy, things suddenly don't
appear as simple anymore. You can't look to the PPI, CPI, etc... to
get an accurate picture of the true dynamics of how wages impact
consumer behavior and where their money ultimately ends up. When you
couple that with external influences ( currencies, commodities,
foreign political and economic environments and the impact it has on
domestic markets, etc..., it becomes even more complex. I won't even
start on consumer behavior and saving.

For the past 30 years the middle and working classes have not seen any
REAL wage increase; in fact, they have been steadily falling behind
the real income curves. As of 2005 the income ratios between workers
and CEOs in the US were 475:1 while the rest of the industrialized
world averaged out at 27:1. By any definition, there is something WAY
out of line. (What was the single biggest criteria for having a
strong capitalist economy? A STRONG middle and working class! The
top 5% do NOT consume 95% of the goods and services in a domestic
economy!) So what happens? Well, when mainstream markets fail to
produce adequate opportunities to keep all willing-to-work
participants gainfully employed, the black markets and organized crime
happily take up the slack. Anyone noticed that and gang membership
are BOOMING these days? Trust me, this *** takes a HEAVY toll on the
mainstream economy and society as well. It costs well over $45k to
keep somebody behind bars doing absolutely nothing. Nope we can't pay
them $32k/yr to keep them productive but, lo and behold, we
(taxpayers) all jump at the opportunity to keep them behind bars and
throw even more money at prison construction!! I won't even discuss
lost tax revenues that WE ultimately end up paying.

In previous posts, I warned about outsourcing jobs, I warned about the
outrageous practices going on in the financial markets and the
downright criminal activities going down behind the walls of public
corporations, I warned about the "commoditization" of humans and
treating them as expensable items and compensating them with as little
as they can get away with. Here's a wake up call: humans are and
should always be treated as people. An employee number or SS number
on the books does not only mean one mouth that is being fed. It can
also mean a family--wife, kids, aging parent/relative, dog, cat,
etc... with bills that go along with it. People today are not losing
their cars, homes, boats, etc... because they have too much money in
the bank. I'll grant you a lot of them lived recklessly beyond their
means but a lot didn't. And for those I make my point: you can't
build and maintain an economy on debt.

Because of deregulation and free markets we are enjoying the type of
economy we all wanted and cheered for. In short, we got the kind of
economy we deserved. No less, no more. The public did not raise any
hell about NAFTA (the treaty no politician read but eagerly passed)
and GATT, There was no public protest when Klintoon allowed mergers
of RBOCs (saying it would promote competition. Yep, lots of
competition in monopolistic competition markets)which led to other
mergers. Looking back, the last three presidents (all Yale Alumni)
did ALL the right things to set this country up for a hideous fall.
And the end is still nowhere in sight.

If we don't get our act together and take charge of lives; guess
what? Someone else will do it for us. Now that our aggregate debt
will soon eclipse our total assets, soon we will not be in much of a
position to dictate anything to anyone. Government at all levels are
getting squeezed (and are finally admitting it) I warned about this
as well. Soon, the DoD will be hearing "sorry sir, but this is no
longer in the budget". Outsourcing is not a threat to national
security? No jobs, low income jobs = less revenues to keep a strong
defense, On the same token, a poorly run government prices itself
beyond its means into deep red ink aka budget deficits. I also warned
about elections "careful what you vote for, odds are you will get
it". I guess most people were more preoccupied with Jerry Springer
and American Idol than to be bothered with the affairs of the nation.

Don't know what else to say but...look at historic periods of our
economy when life was good and things were going well. Do what they
did. And...when things weren't so hot, learn from their mistakes and
don't repeat them. Believe it or not, I grew up in America when I
slept with my windows open, doors unlocked and my parents left their
car keys in the ignition all the time. Anyone care to try that today?

Can our economy be fixed? Probably but now it will take years.
Nobody is willing to suffer the consequences of reallocating resources
to getting this country on a meaningful, long term recovery at a
faster pace. It's in the powers that be's nature to just let it drag
out. They don't care, they can afford to wait. The question is: can
you?

Now as far as banks lending money go...think it through. What bank in
their right mind is going to lend money on collateral that is dropping
in value like a lead balloon? In other words, would you lend a large
sum of money to a co-worker during a time when the company you both
work for has wage concessions on the table along with layoffs? This
too is going to take a long time to iron out--especially with tight
credit. So don't expect any miracles for the housing and automotive
industries. And this this crap continues, expect a crash in
commercial real estate as well.

The bottom line is economics is a zero sum game. No pies for those
who eat them. You take more than your fair share from it, it will
come back to bite, haunt, or roost somewhere else. Having said that,
being an employer is more than providing goods and services to
consumers. It also entails a balance of providing the former AND a
reasonable livelihood for those employed by you who make your
enterprise possible in the first place. Wages and salaries should
reflect what it costs to live a given location and time of year.
When, they fail to see and understand this, problems like we now have
are never too far behind.

My best advice: take care of main street; and the rest of the economy
will take care of itself.





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