Re: US 'accidentally' kills 9 Iraqi civilians

On Feb 5, 8:56 pm, Osiris88 <inde...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 5, 7:30 pm,snakehawk<snakeh...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

You malleable idiots stopped being liberal the moment the media
propagandists started promoting war.

Incorrect.  I felt the war was not needed right then.  My perspective
is that we are in it now whether people think we should have invaded
or not.  Live in the present.

But it seems you have learned from the media to justify the war--I
quote from you previous post: " Iraq launched missiles into Israel,
invaded Kuwait over oil, and sent combat forces into Saudi Arabia.
They were a threat whether at one moment in time Saddam had WMD or
not. He had them and used them, and there was NO reason to assume he
wouldn't try to possess them once again." that's the standard media
line.


  First of all, Iraqis are worried about us leaving because of the
potential for complete descent into chaos.  Yes, believe it or not, it
can actually get a lot worse over there than it is now.

You believe that only because the media tells you so.

No media tells me what to think.  In fact I work in the media so I am
immune to tricks regarding how information is spread.

You people don't know how to think: you read and you believe.



 Millions of

Iraqis have been made homeless. Hundreds of thousands have died.

True.

Their pseudo-leaders, chosen in a carefully orchestrated election,
have been carefully selected and approved by invading foreigners.
Millions of Iraqi citizens have been forced out of their own country.
Those still living in Iraq have been forcefully moved around into
ethnically homogenous sections.

When dealing with a civil war, it is not a surprise that people are
divided.  We are not the cause of that violence.  We didn't make them
distrust one another.

But that is exactly what the U.S. did: make them distrust one another
and set them at each other's throats. The first thing Bush did was to
disband the government, fire all government workers, closed all the
banks, shut down all the factories, place hundreds of thousands into
the ranks of the unemployed, split the country into ethnic
neighborhoods, arm the Kurds and sent them into Iraqi cities and
villages, separate the Iraqi police in ethnic groups, and support
ethnic cleansing of all the neighborhoods. It was a deliberate plan
to create domestic strife or it was the most incompetent and stupid
plan conceivable.
There was no danger of a civil war in Iraq before the United States
invaded.


Their power plants have been bombed by alien aircraft and they have a
few hours of electricity each day.  Their water treatment plants have
been reduced to rubble by foreign aircraft and they have little
drinkable water.  They have no newspapers, no internet, no
transportation, no employment, and they are forced to use money
provided by the occupiers because their own currency has been rendered
worthless.  But gullible idiots in the United States still insist that
the Iraqis want the invaders to stay on.

All of those problems you mentioned are caused by conflict.  

And all the conflict and all the destruction was caused by the United
States.

The
people who don't want Iraq to create its own destiny create
destruction in an effort to take down the government.  I'm sure the
Iraqis don't want to be occupied, who does?  But the word occupation
suggests we are not there to help them get on their feet, but to
control them.  Iraq has a government and they are telling the US what
they want.  The infrastructure of Iraq is not going to improve if we
let the country fall into the abyss, it will get worse and there will
be no hope.

Says who? Bush? Your precious media? Are you suggesting that only
the United States is capable of governing a country? How arrogant,
how blindly stupid can anyone be? The Iraqi people are perfectly
capable of governing themselves. They've done it for centuries.

Yes, one group will gain the upper hand for a time. That's the way
government works. The powerful govern the less powerful. But the
people will eventually work out the best government for themselves.
If the United States policy makers have proven anything it's that they
are totally incapable of bringing an organized effective government to
Iraq. It's time for the United States to leave and let those people
straighten out the outrageous mess you warmongers have made.



  Second, the people we are fighting against are anything but
disorganized.  They are organized into militias and units that
infiltrate police and military forces and have support from outside
the country.  They are savvy.  There is more than one conflict going
on and the reason we remain is to hold up the government so extremist
or terrorist elements can't gain an advantage and cause that weak
government to collapse.

Of course, giving the new government weapons and the means to quell
violence is out of the question to people who want to control the
country.  Those "militias" have no armor, no artillery, no air power.
They are civilians with shoulder arms, desperate men joining together
in any way they can to fight the invaders.  If the United States wants
the new government to be strong, simply give them the equipment to be
strong--then get the hell out of there.

Well, I hope we do that.  But it's a long process.  The reason the
Sunnis are desperate is because they are a minority that abused power
and who don't like the notion of Iraq having any type of
representative government.  One of the reasons it takes so long is
because of ethnic strife and the infiltration of police and military
forces.  This is quite difficult to deal with.  Without police and
military forces being backed by the US, it is unlikely they can ever
get a real grip over the violence.

You mean only U.S. soldiers are capable of keeping peace. Just how
arrogant are you people? The Iraqi people are quite capable of
policing themselves. Just give them the necessary equipment--AND THEN
LEAVE. That's the way out of Iraq.



But, of course, that would mean Iraq would be independent, free to do
as it pleases, and that would not fit into the plans of the Bush cabal
to enslave and empoverish the Iraqi nation, now would it?

  The occupied people you claim to care about did not have rights or
wealth under Saddam Hussein, now they have an opportunity.  Solely
thanks to the United States and other countries that you hate who
decided that it's never the wrong time to do the right thing.

You are just reciting the standard pro-war propaganda. Before the U.S.
invaded, Iraq was the most secular nation the middle east where
religious clerics had no authority, women wore western dress, drove
automobiles, and held professional positions.  Iraqi enjoyed free
education and medical care.  Iraqi cities were clean and orderly.
They enjoyed clean water, sewage, cheap electric power, good roads,
and plentiful fuel for the automobiles that jammed the city streets.
Now look at the place.  Look at what you murderous warmongers have
done to the most modern and civilized country in the middle east.

Secular, sure.  Free?  No.  Were they allowed to criticize authority
without fear of death?  No.  Were they allowed to vote against
Saddam?  No.  And here you are acting self righteous, acting like you
give a damn about Iraqis, and then saying they were better off living
in in a brutal dictatorship.

The worst day under Saddam was no where near as bad as the best day
under U.S. occupation. Iraqis were living in relative peace. They
had jobs, and buying power, and more freedom than the citizens of
Saudi Arabia, Jordan, or any of the other middle eastern monarchies--
all U.S. "allies." Iraqis enjoyed free education and health care.
They traveled freely, not only in their own country but also abroad.
They owned property, drove cars, conducted businesses, and they even
voted for their representatives in parliament and their district
governments. But you propaganda drenched dummies believe they must
be killed because they didn't throw out Saddam.


You, on

the other hand, condemn the Iraqis by suggesting they were better off
under the iron fist of Saddam Hussein.  The insurgents (look up the
word, fella:www.dictionary.com) and terrorist hide behind women and
children which is why civilians get killed but, even more so than
that, those same groups target their own citizens in bombing attacks
on mosques and other public areas like large outdoor markets.   In
fact, the folks you have so much sympathy for are using mentally
retarded people as suicide bombers now.

Why do you only care about Iraqis who are killed by Muslims but lift
your nose at the hundreds of thousands who have been killed by U.S.
jet fighters, helicopter gunships and artillery? Do you people make
some kind of distinction between innocent victims of different vicious
murderers?

There were not hundreds of thousands killed by American strikes.  Get
your facts in order.  Most of the violence in Iraq is done by those
who want Iraq to fail and who don't Iraqis to be democratic.

My facts are straight: most of the violence in Iraq was and is being
done by those who want Iraq to fail and who don't want Iraqis to be
democratic--and that's Bush and the rest of his warmongering
supporters.



  You should look up our history with Iraq and also why we had a
relationship with them.  Iraq launched missiles into Israel, invaded
Kuwait over oil, and sent combat forces into Saudi Arabia.

Iraq was threatening no one when the U.S. sent in the bombers.  Bush
had to lie through his teeth to justify his unprovoked attack.  It was
pure greedy aggression.

Wow.  You really don't know about this subject.  Read something
someday, please.


Read what? One of your warmongering media pundits? I have read, and
I know what Iraq was like, I know that Bush lied, I know the history
of Iraq, and I know the history of the Bush cabal. You might try
reading something besides Jewish "experts" on the middle east.
.

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