Re: We should be teaching ABOUT religion in schools

PerfectlyAble:
Bush Dictatorship wrote:

On 9 Jul 2006 13:41:23 -0700, gpatton@xxxxxxxxx wrote:


American Jesus wrote:
I see schools not just as sterile learning environments but
places
where kids sharpen their teeth and learn social skills. They
also
learn how other kids are different.

Well, one of our largest differences is in our spirituality and
religion, or lack thereof. Just imagine this: kids of all
different
religious backgrounds learning about other beliefs from other kids
at
school. It only promotes more understanding and more tolerance.
You
could have one class a week or every two weeks where kids share
their
religious beliefs and those of their families.

Now, before you start in with the separation of church and state,
let
me say that I already know about that. However, if we are at a
point
where kids remain ignorant because of a philosophy, then that
philosophy is being misused.

Additionally, having kids participate in projects where they
recreate
aspects of other religions (not acting, but using construction
paper,
crayons, etc) only promotes tolerance and greater understanding.

For you lefties out there, please consider this before you stomp
on my
idea. This is the perfect solution to the debate about religion
in
school. Rather than fighting the prayer of one religion, you can
promote so much learning and peace by teaching kids at a young
age
about all of the various beliefs. In case you are wondering, I
belong
to no religion, I am agnostic.

Now, about the prayer part. What is so wrong with taking 2
minutes out
of each day to say thanks to a god? Is two minutes a day really
a
threat to the United States government? Muslims need to pray
five
times each day, but I'm sure something can be worked out. If we
can
put men on the moon then we can solve this one.

So you see, with a little perspective, we can find a compromise
that
benefits the ideals of different sides.


Kids already talk to each other about their faith, all they want
to.
Kids can pray, alone or in groups, silently or out loud, at public
schools, as long as it does not interfere with the school
functions.
To the extent that they do not is because they do not want to.
School
officials should not participate as they are agents of a government
and
can use their control of the students' grades to intimidate the
students to accept the agents' doctrine.

Why do you want to allow the school teachers to control the
students'
religious thinking? Not all of our teachers are liberals and If we
allow those "bad eggs" to intimidate students to accept the
teacher's
doctrine, we do our students harm.

Well the courts seem to disagree with you. It's against the law to
teach about God, Jesus, Christianity, but legal and required no less
for 7th grade students to be taught to pray to Allah, memorize
prayers, dress up as Muslims etc.

My guess is because Allah isn't mentioned in the Constitution, but
God is. This being the case, then our kids can't be taught about the
Constitution, in fact it's not even allowed to be seen in a
classroom.

Schools are there to educate not indoctrinate. Schools have
the obligation to inform kids about the nature of other religions.
Kids are unlikely to convert to Allah just because a teacher
starts a discussion on other religions in society. You have to have
a poor opinion of your own kids to believe their faith would be so
easily swayed. Religious tolerance is core to the whole idea of
freedom of expression and freedom of religion. The tolerance for
other faiths means schools must expose students to religion
(and atheism) in a positive way rather than leave it up to some
religious or athiest bigot at the gates. Everyone knows we're
waiting outside to tell them there in no God, that Allah is
just another sham, and that faith, true faith, is using reason
alone as a support for your beliefs. But the schools have an
obligation atleast to create the possibility of correct religious
dogma.
Personally I find it sickening but accept it because society
isn't a one religion fit. Freedom means the right to be wrong.


http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/islamS.htm

Below is a part of the policy of the U. S. Department of
Education's
concerning school prayer. There is more on the web.


RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS

Student prayer and religious discussion: The Establishment Clause
of
the First Amendment does not prohibit purely private religious
speech
by students. Students therefore have the same right to engage in
individual or group prayer and religious discussion during the
school
day as they do to engage in other comparable activity. For example,
students may read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace
before
meals, and pray before tests to the same extent they may engage in
comparable nondisruptive activities. Local school authorities
possess
substantial discretion to impose rules of order and other
pedagogical
restrictions on student activities, but they may not structure or
administer such rules to discriminate against religious activity or
speech.

Generally, students may pray in a nondisruptive manner when not
engaged
in school activities or instruction, and subject to the rules that
normally pertain in the applicable setting. Specifically, students
in
informal settings, such as cafeterias and hallways, may pray and
discuss their religious views with each other, subject to the same
rules of order as apply to other student activities and speech.
Students may also speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers
about
religious topics just as they do with regard to political topics.
School officials, however, should intercede to stop student speech
that
constitutes harassment aimed at a student or a group of students.

Students may also participate in before or after school events with
religious content, such as "see you at the flag pole" gatherings,
on
the same terms as they may participate in other noncurriculum
activities on school premises. School officials may neither
discourage
nor encourage participation in such an event.

The right to engage in voluntary prayer or religious discussion
free
from discrimination does not include the right to have a captive
audience listen, or to compel other students to participate.
Teachers
and school administrators should ensure that no student is in any
way
coerced to participate in religious activity.

Graduation prayer and baccalaureates: Under current Supreme Court
decisions, school officials may not mandate or organize prayer at
graduation, nor organize religious baccalaureate ceremonies. If a
school generally opens its facilities to private groups, it must
make
its facilities available on the same terms to organizers of
privately
sponsored religious baccalaureate services. A school may not extend
preferential treatment to baccalaureate ceremonies and may in some
instances be obliged to disclaim official endorsement of such
ceremonies.

Official neutrality regarding religious activity: Teachers and
school
administrators, when acting in those capacities, are representatives
of
the state and are prohibited by the establishment clause from
soliciting or encouraging religious activity, and from participating
in
such activity with students. Teachers and administrators also are
prohibited from discouraging activity because of its religious
content,
and from soliciting or encouraging antireligious activity.

Teaching about religion: Public schools may not provide religious
instruction, but they may teach about religion, including the Bible
or
other scripture: the history of religion, comparative religion, the
Bible (or other scripture)-as-literature, and the role of religion
in
the history of the United States and other countries all are
permissible public school subjects. Similarly, it is permissible to
consider religious influences on art, music, literature, and social
studies. Although public schools may teach about religious
holidays,
including their religious aspects, and may celebrate the secular
aspects of holidays, schools may not observe holidays as religious
events or promote such observance by students.

Student assignments: Students may express their beliefs about
religion
in the form of homework, artwork, and other written and oral
assignments free of discrimination based on the religious content
of
their submissions. Such home and classroom work should be judged by
ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, and against
other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school.

Religious literature: Students have a right to distribute religious
literature to their schoolmates on the same terms as they are
permitted
to distribute other literature that is unrelated to school
curriculum
or activities. Schools may impose the same reasonable time, place,
and
manner or other constitutional restrictions on distribution of
religious literature as they do on nonschool literature generally,
but
they may not single out religious literature for special
regulation.

Religious excusals: Subject to applicable State laws, schools enjoy
substantial discretion to excuse individual students from lessons
that
are objectionable to the student or the students' parents on
religious
or other conscientious grounds. However, students generally do not
have
a Federal right to be excused from lessons that may be inconsistent
with their religious beliefs or practices. School officials may
neither
encourage nor discourage students from availing themselves of an
excusal option.

Released time: Subject to applicable State laws, schools have the
discretion to dismiss students to off-premises religious
instruction,
provided that schools do not encourage or discourage participation
or
penalize those who do not attend. Schools may not allow religious
instruction by outsiders on school premises during the school day.

Teaching values: Though schools must be neutral with respect to
religion, they may play an active role with respect to teaching
civic
values and virtue, and the moral code that holds us together as a
community. The fact that some of these values are held also by
religions does not make it unlawful to teach them in school.

Student garb: Schools enjoy substantial discretion in adopting
policies
relating to student dress and school uniforms. Students generally
have
no Federal right to be exempted from religiously-neutral and
generally
applicable school dress rules based on their religious beliefs or
practices; however, schools may not single out religious attire in
general, or attire of a particular religion, for prohibition or
regulation. Students may display religious messages on items of
clothing to the same extent that they are permitted to display
other
comparable messages. Religious messages may not be singled out for
suppression, but rather are subject to the same rules as generally
apply to comparable messages.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
How about teaching science and math and the other stuff as well,... I
agree that we should teach children about tolerence by letting them know
that we are a whole whorld and we come in all kinds of shapes colors and
religions. That is enought in the primary grades. Going into any kind
of depth into all the religions would take a lot of the school day and
would, no doubt be extremely boring to the kids. Kids don't like
religion or rules of any kind. Your point is well taken, though, in
that no particular religious befief should predominate, and certainly
not a non tolerant religious one. Thank You
.

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