Re: ebays new feedback system

"Your name" <com@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Anny Middon" <AnnyMiddon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
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"Our name" <com@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Anny Middon" <AnnyMiddon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
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Here's where we differ -- I don't think it ought to be "nearly private
info." A seller has offered to sell his widgets for as little as a
dollar apiece, the starting bid. How much they actually sold for
should IMO be public information. After all, if the seller really
wanted at least $10 apiece for them, he could have made the starting
bid be $10.00.

This info has always been public, just not at a single click, and not
for 90 days.

Ah, your point is not that this should be nearly private info, but that
it is now in your opinion too easy to get.

What do you mean Ahhhhhh, like you are really onto something ?
I have been consistant airing my view that, indeed, this nearly private
info
should not be available at a single click, and yes, it is now too easy to
get.


I mean, Ahhhh, now I get what's going on. You keep saying that it's "nearly
private information" -- in other words, it's public information. You want
it both ways -- for it to be public information, but not easily accessible
information. But the nature of public information is that it be accessible.

Nothing wrong with that in theory, unless it results in a decline in
the prices a segment of ebay sellers generally get for their items.
I feel it will, I feel I am in that segment, therefore I do not see it
as good. If I was purely a buyer, or selling something like glowsticks,
the pricing of which does not vary much one way or the other, I'd say
hell yeah, good idea.

Ebay is a volume business. It seems to me it's to their benefit to
increase the number of transactions, even if this means the average
dollar amount of each transaction goes down a bit.

The interests of ebay and the majority of its sellers [the very foundation
of
its empire] rarely if ever coincide ... Though I am sure a few slobbering
ebay shills here would dispute that.


I'm pretty sure the interests of Ebay and the majority of its sellers
coincide very often. For example, both Ebay and its sellers want there to
be lots of buyers to bid on wares. Both want buyers to fulfill their end of
the bargain and pay for the items they are high bidder on. Both want buyers
to be able to find the goods they are interested in quickly and easily.

And in fact there are some areas in which the interests of Ebay and its
sellers coincide to the detriment of buyers. For example I would like (and
I know for a fact other buyers would also like) to be able to exclude any
auctions with a reserve price from my search results. Unless I'm missing
something, I can't do this. I'm sure sellers who list items with reserves
don't want me to be able to exclude their auctions from my review.

Ebay won't be hurting in this scenario, because it is calculated to
boost the number of sellers, thus attracting more buyers.

Again, Ebay is not in the business of making money for the people who
sell there -- it's in the business of making money for its shareholders.

Uh ... The people who make money selling there make ebay what it is,
complete.
Shitting on the golden goose is rarely a wise course of action.

Gee, I haven't noticed any drop off in the number of sellers on Ebay. Have
you?

If Ebay is so awful to you as a seller, why do you sell there? Take your
business elsewhere. There are other auction sites out there, you know.

As long as sellers keep listing their goods on Ebay, Ebay is not (as you so
elegantly put it) shitting on them. If selling on Ebay gets too onerous,
sellers will move to other sites and Ebay will suffer or change its
policies.

Do you know how much money ebay makes off of buyers ? I'll clue you in -
0.
Yes, zero.

Of course I am aware I pay nothing directly to Ebay. But the situation is
sort of like how apartment renters in most states don't pay real estate
taxes, the building owners pay them. But the amount of the real estate
taxes is taken into consideration in setting the rent, so the renters in
effect pay the taxes indirectly.


Do you sell ? And what, may I ask ?

Never sold anything on Ebay. Don't expect I will within the foreseeable
future.

Good.



He doesn't do that because he knows that low bids encourage higher
bids and he's more likely to sell his widgets at $10 or more if he
lists them with starting bids of $1. The price he pays for this
strategy is that sometimes he ends up selling his widgets for far less
than the $10 he wants. I think I should have the information on what
he actually has sold them for in the past.

This bears repeating - You have always been able to get that info, only
you'd have to click though different completed auctions to get it.

So your problem is that information that was always available is now
more convenient to get. I suspect most Ebay sellers prefer naive
buyers, and this change makes it easier for buyers to be savvy.

No, as you have already proved, it will make it easier for buyers to be
persnickity, empowered upitty tightwads.

HAHAHAHA!!!! You crack me up!

God forbid buyers should be empowered. Sellers should be the only ones who
have any power in the transaction, right?

You know, when a seller calls buyers "tightwads" it only emphasizes to me
how greedy that seller is.


Also to repeat, my argument is from the sellers perspective.
You seem to be arguing the buyers.

That's because you are a seller, and I'm a buyer.

Ya think ... ?
Oh, by the way, I buy too.


As a buyer, if you think the item is worth $20, but has a minimum bid of $1,
do you take steps to assure the seller gets at least $20? Have you set up
two different buying IDs so you can bid against yourself and assure that the
seller receives at least the sum you think is fair for the item? Or, if you
win the item for that $1, do you send the seller $20 because that's what you
think it is worth?

Then I can decide if I want to pay $10 to
$15 now and get my widget soon, or bide my time and perhaps get it for
$2 or $3 (and taking the risk that I never get it for that sum and
eventually have to pay $20 to get it at all).

Anny

That is part of my case against this new crap.
Why do you feel you are entitled to the complete records of a private
individuals sales ?

Because it is and (according to you) has been public information. Why
shouldn't I have it?

Either take a pass or answer the question sheesh.

HAHAHA! I did answer the question -- I'm entitled to the information
because it is PUBLIC information. You seem to be under the impression that
public information isn't supposed to be accessible to the public.

It is of use to me only if the seller tends to sell the same item time
and again. I suspect most Ebay sellers sell a broad variety of
merchandise, and that it's rare if they have more than 2 or 3 of an item
to sell.

I think your suspicion is suspect.

Perhaps so. Do you have data on that point?

But you know, it seems to me that there's this huge pool of Ebay sellers who
sell sporadically, whenever they want to get rid of some of their stuff or
they come across a bargain at a garage sale they think they can make some
money on. Then there's a much smaller group who sell as a money-making
venture. Some of those sell multiples of the same items. But without data
to the contrary, I'll stand by my assumption that most Ebay sellers rarely
have more than 2 or 3 of an item to sell.


If you purchase something, you shouldn't do it on a whim.

I suspect that as a seller you are in favor of people bidding on a whim,
so long as they follow through and buy the product if they win the
auction.

I don't snipe, but I have noticed that when I bid early in an auction I
am almost always outbid. I try now to place my bids on items I really
want when there are only a few hours left. (I typically figure out what
the maximum I want to spend for an item is, subtract shipping and other
charges, and place a proxy bid for that. It's very rare that I raise my
bid after that. I raise my bid only when subsequent research [the kind
of research you want to remain hard for me to do] indicates my maximum
is unrealistic.)

Silly silly silly.
You bid with hours left, why not minutes ?
You bid with minutes left, why not seconds ?
You clearly have much to learn.


Shrug. My method works for me. I get a fair amount of the auctions I bid
on at a price I'm willing to pay without spending a lot of time or effort.

You see, it's not that important to me that I win the auction. But when I
do win, of course I want to get the item at the lowest possible price. Just
as the seller wants to get the highest price. This divergence between the
motivations of buyers and sellers is the cornerstone of the free market
system, don't you know.

Some buyers seem to find items that have bids more attractive than ones
that do not. I'm surprised to find when I search for something specific
to find that one auction has 10 bids and a current high bid of $20,
while another for an identical item has no bids with a minimum bid of
$5. That first bid may have been made on a whim. If I see something I
sort of want with no bids and a low minimum bid, I'll bid the minimum
amount -- if i win it for that, fine, I got a bargain on something I
sort of wanted; if I don't win it, fine, it's not something I really
wanted. I very rarely win these auctions.

Yes, I know your type well.
Bid $1.77 on an item clearly worth more than $20, and hope the seller gets
screwed and takes a loss for your benefit.
Have you considered panhandling as a way to [profitably] fill up some of
your
free time ?

HAHAHA!! I suppose you're the sort of person who pays full sticker price
for a car, and the asking price on a house.

Besides, how is the seller possibly getting screwed on the deal? The seller
established the minimum bid. Ebay doesn't allow me as a buyer to bid less
than the minimum. If the seller takes a loss on the item, it's the seller's
fault.

Decide what its worth to you, and pay accordingly [or not] as the case
may be.
Are you are saying that if you see a particular item has sold for $3
one time and $12 another, you would feel you are entitled to it at the
cheaper extreme ?

Of course not. But now I know it's possible to get it for $3. I may
decide to be patient and bid a max of $3 on the item, and when I lose
it, bid $3 on another one. Eventually I may get the item for $3. The
risk I take is that I may never be the winning bidder. I think my risk
complements the risk the seller takes by listing the item with a minimum
bid of $3 or below -- he may have to sell the item for less than he
wants.

You appear to have said no, follwed up, after much elaboration, by an
unqualified yes.

Maybe you need some help with your reading skills. I never said I feel
entitled to get the item for $3, but I sure as hell am entitled to bid no
more than that if that sum is at or above the minimum bid the seller has
established.


If yes, that is another problem I have with this stupid crap - Too much
of a resource for airhead cheapskates, who would try to talk an item
down at a
garage sale from .25 to .10.

You have a simple remedy for your problem -- make the minimum bid equal
to the lowest amount you wish to sell the item for. That way you don't
have to worry about selling your items for less than you think they are
worth. But if you offer an item at $1, don't whine if that's when you
end up selling it for.

Ok I'll make a note of that.

Please do. Because you seem to be a bit confused here. You seem to think
that if YOU assign a minimum bid of $1 on an auction and a buyer wins the
auction for that amount, it's the fault of the buyer.

You know, I'm getting the feeling you don't understand how proxy bidding
works. If you put a minimum bid on $1 on an item, and a buyer puts in a
proxy bid with a maximum of $1000, that maximum means nothing if no one else
bids on it. Proxy bidding always uses the lowest bid that meets the
conditions of the auction. The buyer wins that auction for $1.

I mention this because you seem to think that the buyer under this
circumstance is in your terms a "tightwad."

I would think it's understood, but now I think it bears saying -- the SELLER
establishes the minimum; BUYERS as a group determine the maximum. (In the
example I just gave, suppose another buyer comes along, and the new minimum
bid is $2. If that buyer puts in a maximum bid of $999, the first bidder is
now the high bidder with a bid of $1000.)

Economists say that Ebay is a pretty good example of a free market system.
This means that the price an item sells for is in the economist's mind
*exactly* the fair market value for that item at that point of time. If an
item sells for $1.77, it doesn't matter if the seller or buyer or anyone
else thinks it's worth $20, at that point in time the market has said that
item is worth exactly $1.77.

I don't go to many garage sales, since they so rarely have anything I
want. I did hold a garage sale a coupel of years ago. Plenty of people
asked me if I'd take a lower amount for an item. Since my goal was to
get rid of a lot of stuff I wasn't using, I almost always immediately
agreed. If the price they quoted was less than I really wanted, I made
a counteroffer.

I can imagine the junk you had for sale.

Oh, I imagine it was pretty much like the stuff you offer on Ebay. You
know, the stuff that you're so afraid that buyers will find out the price
that was determined by the free market system on earlier auctions. How can
you gouge the amount your greed dictates if buyers know the marketplace has
determined a lower sum?


If no, then this info has not influenced you, and is hence worthless to
your decision of whether or not you want to purchase it.

You should have no problem with worthless information be made more
readily available.

Anny

I was refering to you personally Ditz-o, not a general policy which
applies
to 10's of 1,000's.

I'm fairly representative of Ebay buyers in general. We all want to win
auctions at low bids, just as all sellers want their auctions to be won at
high bids.

BTW, what is your Ebay selling account name? I'd like to look it up and see
what this fantastic merchandise is that you're so sure is worth $20 but are
forced to sell for $1.77.

Anny


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