Re: Junk messages

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:39:14 -0800, brewertr@xxxxxxx wrote:

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:01:48 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
<jon_banquer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ignorant:

"I would be willing to tutor him if he can learn to treat others with
respect by finding a new way to communicate, much like I have by
refusing to engage in personal attacks" - Jon Banquer -

"UG has it's own macro language" - jon_banquer@xxxxxxxxxxx
Dec 8 2000

"Perhaps your bud Bottleboob can e-mail you my response to your questions on
macros, VBA, UG AE's, Automatic Feature Recognition, etc ??? " -
jon_banquer@xxxxxxxxxxx Dec 11 2000

"Here's one example of how it works: I mention that UG and lots of other CAM
companies have their own basic macro automation / customization language and ...
The Bottleboob technique is then to ask me for every little detail about UG's
macro /customization language, including how it will help in their specific
case" - jon_banquer@xxxxxxxxxxx Dec 11 2000

[
In article <91433k$es...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, jon_banq...@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:


Jon,
Thank you for your concern about AOL. It is confusing to a simple person
such as myself when things get delayed and scattered.
I hope it's fixed soon so that I may respond in a more timely manner.

I initially asked what I thought was a very simple question that should need
only a very short answer.
At least that was what I thought at the time. I guess it's much more
complicated than I expected. Foolish of me, I know.
I only asked you about UG's MACRO programming language in the first
place. I asked you NOTHING about VBA, UG AE's, Automatic Feature
Recognition, etc
You added all of that in response to my ONE LINE question. AND you
answered nothing about my question at all that I could spot.
NOW I have many, many questions to ask as time goes on. All sorts of
things you have expertise in as I now see and of which I am now curious.
I really do like learning new things.
I can barely restrain myself from asking them all now. It's really hard.


For the THIRD time here it is again:



BEGIN QUOTE {
Subject: Re: Cam systems wish list (Long again)
From: clhupr...@xxxxxxx (Clhuprich)
Date: 09 Dec 2000 00:11:47 GMT


In article <90rhit$4p...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, jon_banq...@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:


<snip rant>


UG has it's own macro language,


<snip rant>


What is it and how does it work? What can it do and why would you need it?
Cliff Huprich


} END QUOTE



I have tried to reconstruct the information a bit from various posts. I think
I
have the basics below.

As you expanded on my question (without answering it at all) I refer you
to my original post in THIS thread. Your cross-thread posts are not of much
help.
From reading your latest (and my questions in response to your post) I
understand that VBA is what you were referring to as the "MACRO language
Unigraphics uses. That answers that question.


POSTED QUESTION:


{



What is the name of this "macro language"? Is it VBA? Is VBA a "macro
language"?
}


YOUR ANSWER:

{
I believe VBA is actually the engine that runs VB but to answer your
question the easy way....yes.


VBA is a "macro language" that one can use in many, many applications.
Excel, AlphaCAM, DP Esprit 2000 Plus, Access, Word, AutoCAD, etc...they
all include VBA with their programs. The VBA integrated development
enviorment (IDE)is for all practical purposes the SAME as one gets when
they buy VB.(Less controls with VBA)



}


From the next question it is clear that UG's MACRO programming language
VBA is good for running CNC controls and fixes the probing problems
you were having.
I now also understand that Visual Basic is used for "Automatic Feature
Recognition." It's nice that UG is adding this capability to their MACRO
language VBA.
But if it's "Automatic" why would you need to use Visual Basic in UG at
all?

POSTED QUESTION:


{



Can I run it in a CNC control as a Macro? Can I use it for probing? (How
does it work.)
What can it do? Just some examples so that we have a clue as to it's
utility. Is it like AutoLISP for design only? Like APT or COMPACT II for
N/C programming only? What? Just claiming a macro language exists
does not help us determine if we should look at it as we have no clue what
you define as a "macro language."
As YOU need it how does it help you? Would you recommend it to others?
}


YOUR ANSWER:

{
ABSOLUTELY !!!! Well...not to Bottleboob.


You have to have an interest in automating your manufacturing and CAM
process. I have done this with DP Esprit X's macro language. In the
simplest way I know how to describe what I did, I would use the term
fake feature recognition of 2D Geometry. If someone really wants to
understand what I did, I think it would help to understand Automatic
Feature Recognition first and I don't think very many posters to this
newsgroup have a clue about what it is.


One look at the proposed contest of Bootleboob vs. me tells me most
posters here are clueless when it comes to how to speed up the CAM
programming process and really don't care. There was also another
poster who started a thread complaining that his boss said he was too
slow. Not one poster suggested a CAM program or programming process
that actually would make CAM programming faster.


Try www.gsslco.com. If this is of interest to you, I will describe how
faking feature recognition can speed up the CAM programming process for
2D geometry. The latter is true even for a prototype shop.


It's by using Automatic Feature Recognition that I would blow
the "f"ing doors off Bottleboob in speed of programming most 2 and 1/2
axis parts.This technology is only available in CAMWorks (Runs inside
of SolidWorks) It will soon be available in ProCAM which is also made
by TechSoft. The AFR technology is all done by GSSL in India. GSSL has
contracts with UG, SDRC, SolidWorks, etc for their Automatic and
Interactive Feature Recognition Technology.



}


From your answer to my next question I now understand that to do a job well
in the CAE/CAD/CAM arena you feel knowing anything about any system
in unimportant. And that Sandy is not an expert on the UG MACRO language
but that I will understand it from reading his old posts.
It must be nice to be able to earn a living by focusing on a concept while
remaining ignorant of any of the specific bothersome details as they are
all the same (oops, similar.)
Is this why it is best to edit the tape file to make changes to your program?
And why using machine dependant control MACROs (from UG?) is the
best way to program?
As I have heard that APT has MACROs can I just learn APT instead of
EZ-CAM?
If I use MACROs at my machine control would this be the same thing?

BTW, back when I was taking a few classes I had a Math class with some
education Majors in it. I was told not to ask questions. I asked what they
would do if a student asked them the same questions. I was told they would
tell the student to wait until they were in college to ask the question.
I quickly dropped that differential equations class and found another.


POSTED QUESTION:


{



My position is if someone is REALLY that interested they can:

1. Read Sandy L's posts on the benefits of VBA in AlphaCAM
(same concept, even thought it's a different CAM system)
to get a general idea of what kinds of things you can
do with an automation /customization macro language


Deja's old archives are seemingly no more. How can we read these posts?
Is Sandy an expert on UG macros?


2. Download something like EZ-CAM and try using it's macro
language and working thru the numerous examples.


Will this be the same macro language UG uses with the same capabilities?
}



YOUR ANSWER:

{
No, but they are ALL similar. You are using a macro language to
automate the CAM process in some way no matter what CAM system it is.
It might help you to focus on the CAM automation concept rather than
the specific language or specfic CAM program.



}


You are seemingly correct in that I was not here.
But you advise that I talk with AEs from UG to find out the name and some
basic (not VBA) information on their MACRO language VBA. You are also
telling me below that the way to do this is to go to a trade show. I can learn
all about Visual Basic by going to a trade show as you have done?
I don't want to wait for one or spend the money to go just to get some
product blurbs and sales hype. You were extolling the virtues, please tell
me a bit.
Are you trying to "dumb me down" by providing no information about VBA
as it relates to MACRO programming my CMM in UG?
I thought this is the sort of thing you complained about others doing.

POSTED QUESTION:


{



3. Talk with UG. They have really knowledgeable AE's


Are they posting here?
}



YOUR ANSWER:

{
No. I don't think we have enough CAM users who appreciate the value of
UG CAM. I don't think UG guys want to deal with dumbed down Bill Gibbs
groupies. I doubt they wanted to deal with Bruce Closs, either but I
guess you were not here to experience that for yourself.



}


POSTED QUESTION:

{


How much does it cost to talk to them?
}


YOUR ANSWER:
{
I have spent hours upon hours talking to UG AE's at places like Eastec.
Much more interesting than sitting through a Bill Gibbs demo of
GibbSCAM. The UG AE's that I have met are out of Waltham, Mass and are
really nice and willing to share anything. Can't say enough good things
about them.

}


POSTED QUESTION:
{

Don't you have to buy UG first?
}


YOUR ANSWER:
{
NO !!! UG does not market like Bill Gibbs and his VAR's do. They don't have to.

}


POSTED QUESTION:
{

You make a lot of claims but when questioned refer people to someone that
is "knowledgeable." If you are not what validity do any of your claims have?
}


YOUR ANSWER:
{
None. I'm a complete idiot. Read what "No User", Bottleboob and some
others have posted. It's ALL TRUE !!!!

}


POSTED QUESTION:
{

And you claim macros are simple so what's the problem?
}


YOUR ANSWER:
{
One needs to know WHAT it is they want to automate. One needs to have
a "vision" for how they want to automate THEIR manufacturing processes.
Some people have NO vision. They just machine parts.
Have I mentioned Bottleboob's name in this post ???


}


Then you tell me to ask a SmartCAM user about UG's MACRO language
Visual Basic (does MS have a trademark on this?) but then tell me that
SmartCAM is dead. How am I to find a user of a dead system to tell me
about UG? Did they also use VBA to program their CMMs with MACROs?

POSTED QUESTION:
{


4. Ask a moderately advanced SmartCAM user.

They would know about UG?
}



YOUR ANSWER:
{
No, but many SmartCAM users very clearly understand how to automate the
CAM process. You won't find ANY of these types of SmartCAM users
downgrading to GibbSCAM even though the development of SmartCAM is dead.

}


POSTED QUESTION:
{

Don't you know SmartCAM?
}


YOUR ANSWER:
{
If SmartCAM was still a going concern and I did not believe so heavily
in Automatic Feature Recognition, I would learn SmartCAM because I
believe it was / is still FAR ahead of most CAM programs. The founders
of SmartCAM had the vision thing....BIG TIME, IN SPADES !!! You don't
even post with SmartCAM, you generate G-code as you go along. SmartCAM
was designed as a CAM system for automation and to deal with any kind
of change at any time. Point Control was so far ahead of it's time
compared to SURFCAM, MasterCAM, GibbSCAM, DP, etc. It's tragic that
SDRC killed it.


}


Then I decided to again try asking the person that posted this wisdom
about UG's MACRO language and how great it is. And you have been posting
here extolling the merits of Unigraphics so you should know what you are
talking about, right? And complaining about some other programs too so
it must be a comparative thing, right?

POSTED QUESTION:
{


Why can I not ask you?
}


YOUR ANSWER:
{
You are. The answers your getting just probably aren't exactly what you
expect or want to hear.


}


Every little detail, Jon? You have not provided ONE.
You state "Just like I'm supplying you NO information about VBA,
Automatic Feature Recognition, UG and how their AE's work and CAM
automation" and that is quite correct. For which I am thankful as I asked
for no information on most.
You only used buzz words, like a new salesman reading the one page
product brochure. No information at all. Just noise.
You don't even provide minimal information. Did you lose the product
advertisement someplace?

POSTED QUESTION:
{


When I won't spoonfeed someone every little freaking detail, I don't
have a clue about what I'm talking about.


" Every little freaking detail"? You are complaining that someone asked you
and then further claiming that it was BottleBob that asked. And it seems
that you cannot supply any information at all beyond your rants.
}



YOUR ANSWER:
{
Right. Just like I'm supplying you NO information about VBA, Automatic
Feature Recognition, UG and how their AE's work and CAM automation in
this post. and just in case I am it's not good enough. (Another proven
Bottlboob technique.)


}


Spoonfeed? Well, Jon, you read this again, PLEASE, and tell me what
part of my question you answered here.
And please don't use that invisable text font again.

POSTED QUESTION:
{


When I won't spoonfeed someone every little freaking detail, I don't
have a clue about what I'm talking about.

" Every little freaking detail"? You are complaining that someone asked you
and then further claiming that it was BottleBob that asked. And it seems
that you cannot supply any information at all beyond your rants.
Or are
unwilling to. Spoonfeed? You are even keeping the name of this claimed
"macro language" a secret.
Does UG really have one? Makes one wonder ...
I do tend to agree with you though. At least on the last half of your last
statement <G>.
}



YOUR ANSWER:
{
You tell me. I fully expect you to now say I'm STILL unwilling to and
have not done so.


}


As a final request, Jon, I would ask that you post any reply to my questions
to this thread, not another, so that we can at least guess what it is in reply
to.
If you would also keep the headers intact that would be nice too.
And please try to quote entire paragraphs. I know it makes it hard for
you but does tend to keep the context intact. I have had to reconstruct
all of this from your scattered, undocumented snips, out of context quotes,
cross-thread reply posts, the original posts and such. Hope I got it all right.
I suspect that the real name of whatever you think is a MACRO here has
escaped you. Perhaps you could find a manual or ask someone that knows
like those UG AEs you know so well.
Thanks
] - Cliff to clueless on Dec 12 2000
--
Cliff
.

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