Re: Practical Machinist Posts

On Sun, 06 May 2007 08:10:53 -0400, clutch@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

Anthony <tonytn36sp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I've been there. Did some training in a northern city, hard to teach CNC
when you first have to teach how to add and subtract positive and
negative numbers......*sigh*.


I expect a reply from Unka George soon.

BTW, could they read?

Wes
=================================
Operationally, you are attempting to socialize and culturalize,
as well as educate/train people from an alien time and culture
into the modern CNC machining environment.

==> Given that this process normally takes years, if you had any
success at all, you are to be commended, not criticized. <==

Another thought - how much of a MSL [Machining as a Second
Language] check was done before instruction was attempted? Even
the well educated and highly literate/numerate will have problems
in CNC classes if their MSL scores are low.

From several perspectives...

(1) From a corporate executive standpoint - I need my head
examined for even attempting to site [or maintain] a operation
requiring high-skill employees in a inner-city urban environment,
and should be committed for observation if I think that I can
recruit them there.

You can't catch a fresh trout in a herring barrel. People
possessing the required skills and intellectual levels left those
area long ago, except for the altruistic few in non-profit
organizations. As Townsend observed many years ago in his book
"Up the Organization," "When you attempt the impossible, you are
bound to fail."

(2) Wearing my Human Resources hat -- If I am going duck hunting
(and expect to actually get some ducks) I would not go to the
Sahara Desert or Death Valley, even if the duck blinds rent real
cheap....

(3) Wearing my teacher hat -- Teachers are not magicians or
psychotherapists -- It is clear that this was an adult group, and
as such their attitudes and perceptions of the world are largely
fixed.

While in isolated cases it is possible to perform what in the
"headshrinker" trade is called a "personality transplant," it is
exceptionally time consuming, expensive, and very hard on both
the therapist and even the [willing] client.

It is unreasonable to attempt to "fix" a group with bad attitudes
[from the employer's perspective -- perfectly reasonable and
utile from their perspective]. Experience shows that any "good
apples" in such a barrel will be rapidly contaminated by the
majority.

One of the huge advantages of adult education classes in the
community college or VoTec settings is that the students want to
be there, and most are paying at least a portion of the cost thus
"putting their money where their mouth is."

(4) This "problem" was created over the previous 20 to 30 years
while the trainees were growing up, and in several ways it is a
"problem" only in the perspective of the trainer and perspective
employer, in that the trainees don't/won't respond to what the
trainer/employer considers important, even vital.

Study after study has shown that a person's beliefs, attitudes,
and most importantly adult socio-economic status are almost
entirely determined by the beliefs, attitudes, and socio-economic
status of the same gender parent, or if the same gender parent
was not available, the same gender relatives, and neighborhood
role models, (which can be a problem when the most successful are
the head crack cocaine distributor and chief pimp).

When I refer back to observation (1) it is clear that I have a
big problem. Any group that I select from this environment that
consists of sober, industrious, thrifty, ambitious, etc.
individuals is, by definition, an anomaly, and likely to be
members of what is perceived to be divisive and threatening cults
and sects, such as the Black Muslims.

FWIW -- While the employer would be operationally creating a
"closed shop," they may well be better off in this circumstance
to preferentially hire from these groups, even if pork must
eliminated from the cafeteria menu and prayer breaks substituted
for coffee breaks. You will know they won't show up hung over,
strung out, or wasted, and drug dealing in the shop will not be a
problem, and from all I have heard, employee theft will also
cease, although the "slips and falls" at work may increase for a
while.

BTW, could they read?

We would do well to remember that the majority of people in the
world are functionally/operationally illiterate. In the worlds
in which these people live, even if these are located in the USA,
this is not perceived as a great [indeed any] handicap.

Reading with comprehension is a difficult skill to acquire,
requiring years of practice and effort, and oddly enough books,
magazines, papers, etc. to read for practice, which can be a
problem if you must spend all your money on food, rent, etc.

While you and I regard reading with comprehension as a
foundational skill, many groups and cultures regard it as an
affectation, ==> and in many inner-city cultures in the US,
people who read are seen as "uppity" and "trying to be better
than everyone else." <==

Unless and until we can convince the majority of people in these
areas that "reading is indeed fundamental" at the gut level,
rather than simply chanting another catch phrase at them such as
"just say no," "drink Red Bull malt liquor," and "wear Maidenform
bras," reading with comprehension will remain optional.

It will also be necessary to provide some practical demonstration
of the advantages [in their world] of reading comprehension to
answer the WIIFM [what's in it for me] question if we expect
people to devote the years of practice required. While it is a
start, passing a standardized "objective" reading test does not
guarantee the ability to read and understand, especially if the
skill is not continually practiced.

The same comments apply to numeracy.

This is a systemic socio-cultural problem that has been allowed
to develop over many years. I have no solutions, particularly
quick, easy and cheap solutions, that would apply to the
unwilling.

Castro's Cuba has shown that structural illiteracy/innumeracy in
a society can be overcome to a large degree [but not eliminated]
but it requires considerable time, effort and expense, and most
of all, coercion, indoctrination and continuous propaganda at
levels that are unacceptable in the US for anything except Coke
and McDonalds. It should also be noted that the language
involved in this effort was exclusively Cuban Spanish. When the
people involved must acquire another language in addition to the
literacy/numeracy skills the difficulties expand exponentially.

It should be noted that this "problem" is not limited to "persons
of color," although it may be more visiable, but it is pandemic
in all the US socio-cultural ghettos (which is why they persist).
The "problem" is just as great in the urban area crammed full of
whites displaced from the rural areas when the manufacturing
plants closed and/or the crop prices tanked.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.
.