Re: What's the best program CAD-CAM ?

BottleBob wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" wrote:
>>
>> BottleBob wrote:
>
>
> John:
>
> I thought I did give a hypothetical alternative. One Makino vs. three
> Fadals.

So it's two Makino's running at $200 per hour each versus 6 bang for the
buck machines at $45?
Looks like a no brainer to me and after five or six years of hard use the
Makino's will have another ten in them. Good machines are very cost
effective in the long run.
Can you say the same for the alternates? I doubt it and I won't have had
your maintanence costs or incurred the associated down time.
I'll send some aspirin over when you are ready.

Your prospects will improve when FADAL rolls out their latest technology
though and the numbers will look a lot different.
Just you wait and see.


> We've had the Makino for a few years now, probably just after your
> last visit through the shop, when was that? But I wouldn't go so far
> as to say it can produce parts that CAN'T be done on the other
> machines. Some parts are easier to do, and/or take less operator
> intervention.

Otherwise known as a competetive advantage. You make better use of your
rarest, most expensive resource, your people.
Given a saw and a file I can build you a mold Bob. That would not, however,
be my first, or even second, choice.
It wouldn't be yours either.

>
>
>>>> Experience is a good thing. That's why you get the big bucks -
>>>
>>> Bra ha ha. Now I KNOW you're kidding!
>>
>> LOL That Z06 wasn't the result of saving beer can pull tabs.
>
> Well, I wouldn't read too much into THAT. It was a lease car the for
> the first four years.

I'm not chastizing you Bob. You earned it. Just don't poor mouth me OK?

>
>
>>> Some people are more productive with a mouse, and some are more
>>> productive working with a command line structure. To the degree
>>> that an individual can be more productive with one type of program
>>> in relation to another... well that degree is how important the
>>> working of the interface of any particular the program will be to
>>> his productivity.
>>
>> There has been a tremendous amount of research regarding interface
>> technology Bob.
>> Give me a call when Sony impliments a text based interface on a
>> PlayStation. Were there any truth or factual research to support the
>> text side of Text/GUI arguments you would need a keyboard to game.
>
> I don't know if that qualifies as a relevant argument. I would tend
> to believe that most gamers are kids and are not experienced typists.

You might believe exactly that but you would be wrong. They key demographic
is 16 to 39 years of age.
The feed back loop is the metric in an interface regardless of its purpose.
If you paid for your CAD/CAM product by putting money in the computer 4
quarters at as time you would see amazing improvements in the interface
technology. As it is, you are all in up front and the incentive to improve
is, therefore, focused elsewhere. Like on effective marketing since that is
what yields the biggest return.
This model also has the advantage of convincing you that you are trapped in
to a particular product because it's the interface you know.
None of the interfaces on the market are really that great and when you go
shopping the vendor you have will be able to use that to their advantage.
The notable exception, in my experience, is Delcam. If you can't run
PowerMill without instruction as soon as you sit down and orient yourself
you are either a real dunce or brain dead.
I taught a mold maker from Pomona how to use his new seat of PowerMill when
it first came out in an evening and I hadn't even seen the product. Bruce
almost wet himself laughing after the guy left the office. The guy did need
some seat time but the point is that you can develop and implement a great
interface if you want to devote the necessary resources.

>
>
>>
>>>> Exactly. I adressed this very important point above.
>>>
>>> Yes, you did. And it's a valid point. But it's not necessarily the
>>> ONLY correct viewpoint in all circumstances.

The correct view is the one where the equity looks at their return at the
end of the year and is satisfied.
Each to his or her own.

>>
>> I would agree if the principal owner had cancer or was otherwise
>> near death. Going forward requires just that - you have to go
>> FORWARD and not just tread more water. That is what you are
>> implying. More motion not better propulsion. You very quickly run
>> into the wall of diminishing returns in the same way street racers
>> do with engine displacement. At some point you need to change
>> something else to gain real performance improvements. Like Nitrous.
>
> Compare the hypothetical output of two shops that have 500k to spend
> on machine tools. One shop chooses 2 DMG Horizontals and the other
> shop chooses 8 Haas' say 6 mills and 2 lathes. Which shop do you
> think could produce the most quantity AND variety of work in any
> given week?

You are only going to get one properly tooled DMG for that, not two so I
would end up with one DMU 70V. It doesn't matter much though. At the end of
the year I will have a better return than you will and that's what counts,
not how many dollars you can churn.
Churning dollars is for stock brokers not manufacturers. Manufacturing isn't
a zero sum game and that is a fact that is often overlooked.
>
>
>> You didn't but I got an e-mail an hour ago and not everyone
>> appreciates the wisdom of our words here. Some people have no sense
>> of humor.
>
> I don't understand. We've just been chatting amicably, what could
> ANYONE complain about? Please elucidate.

Just another blow hard with his panties in a bunch. I really need to work on
my spelling.

> Or better yet, whoever E-mailed John please E-mail ME with your
> comments.

There ya' go. You too can now have your own personal spell checker :>)

LOL

--
John R. Carroll
Machining Solution Software, Inc.
Los Angeles San Francisco
www.machiningsolution.com


.

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