Re: What's the best program CAD-CAM ?

"John R. Carroll" wrote:
> BottleBob wrote:

> Legacy software might keep you going but it may also serve to restrain a
> companies ability to capitalize on their hard earned success.
> I don't know if that makes sense to you or not. Let me put it this way so
> you can get a non software perspective.
> HAAS and FADAL make great entry level machines and their target is bang for
> the buck customers.
> Having started out with this class of machine and then needing to replace
> them, you miss a trick by not graduating to best in class equipment. With
> some years of experience and a decent customer base you are in a position to
> exert some leverage and move up to the kind of machines that will let you
> hold your prices while optimizing your profits. It happens this way all the
> time and the oft stated reason is that people like the control they know and
> don't want to learn new stuff. This is STUPID but very human behavior. It
> effectively guarantees that you will continue to compete with every swinging
> dick upstart in the neighborhood and wipes out much of the value that has
> been created by years of hard work.


That's a very reasonable perspective, and has a lot going for it. I'm
just saying it's not the ONLY viable business perspective.

> Making changes just to make changes isn't smart either, but why wouldn't you
> want to compete at a level that most of your competitors couldn't begin to
> reach? It's why Pat got a Makino instead of something less expensive. You
> moved to be a better class of company with that purchase. Would you argue
> that this isn't the case?

No, I wouldn't argue that it definitely isn't the case. BUT, for the
price of that Makino we could have almost bought 3 small Fadals or
Haas'. Now while the Makino is more accurate and faster than our other
machines it can't out produce *3* machines on parts that don't need
extreme accuracy. This isn't a case of all black, or all white. It a
gray area that depends on many variables.

> > BUT, you may be making an unwarranted assumption that "Seat time is
> > pretty portable", especially if someone doesn't HAVE any prior seat
> > time in any CAD/CAM system.
> You expect to have to train an apprentice and that is what you are
> describing.

Well, I've trained two of our people that had absolutely no prior
experience with CAD, CAM or CAD/CAM.

> In any event, a trainee doesn't have any portable skills by
> definition. How can something be portable if you haven't got it to port.

Hmmm. Yes. You DO see the point I was making now.

> And NOW there may be no reasonable way
> > for you to judge how easy a CAM system is to learn from scratch,
> > since you cannot put yourself in the place of someone learning a
> > system for the first time because of all your existing subconscious
> > knowledge of other systems.
> Experience is a good thing. That's why you get the big bucks -

Bra ha ha. Now I KNOW you're kidding!

> > Everyone doesn't work exactly the same. For instance, some people
> > work best and quickest with typed command line input, others are more
> > efficient with mouse inputs. So even if someone were completely
> > honest, the results of a comparison between different CAM systems
> > (some systems don't HAVE the feature of command line input), might
> > differ radically from one individual to another.
> The value you measure is productivity. Everything else is just crap and
> something sales droids use to distract prospects.
> Who cares how something works.

Some people are more productive with a mouse, and some are more
productive working with a command line structure. To the degree that an
individual can be more productive with one type of program in relation
to another... well that degree is how important the working of the
interface of any particular the program will be to his productivity.

> > Ahh now, THAT is the real question. How much would a prospective
> > customer be willing to pay for an unbiased and objective evaluation of
> Nothing Bob, absolutely nothing.

You may be correct there.

> > various CAD/CAM systems. Since it doesn't seem to have been done, I
> > would assume that no one has thought it would be a profitable
> > enterprise.
> See CimData. OOPS, I misspelled PROSTITUTE.

Yeah, that's too bad. It seems that advertising revenue is just too
big a cherry to just disregard.

> >> Maybe, but my philosophy is that I don't ever want to put myself on
> >> the same plane with the competition.
> >> When you do that the best you can do is stay even.
> >
> > Actually, that's one of the main reasons we bought our Makino
> > Horizontal ($$$).
> Exactly. I adressed this very important point above.

Yes, you did. And it's a valid point. But it's not necessarily the
ONLY correct viewpoint in all circumstances.

> I will train the to a certain extent but if they can't use the material I
> provide on a CD to attain a very high level of proficiency they should shut
> the doors and find another line of work.
> Now you'll probably be pissed that I got you thinkin'.

Pissed? Who me? You must have me confused with someone else. Did I
call you a winger or a fundie? LMAO!


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