Re: OT - Global Warming Revisited

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:09:24 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>Cliff wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:27:08 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Cliff wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:21:18 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Cliff wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:05:49 GMT, BottleBob <bottlbob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Cliff wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> John,
>> >> >> >> Free electrons have little to do with the conduction of
>> >> >> >> heat.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Cliff:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Free electrons are supposedly one of the main reasons why metals
>> >> >> >conduct heat so well compared to other substances.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Don't confuse it with electricity or electrical conduction.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Actually, I believe that the metals that are the best electrical
>> >> >> >conductors tend to also be the best conductors of heat.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Gee .... then explain why Diamond conducts better ......
>> >> >
>> >> >Cliff:
>> >> >
>> >> > Since when is Diamond (carbon), considered a metal? You DID notice the
>> >> >word "Metal" in my two statements above, didn't you?
>> >>
>> >> "Best conductors of heat"? "Best electrical conductors"?
>> >
>> >Cliff:
>> >
>> > That's not what I said, is it. What *I* said is right in the post
>> >you're responding to.
>>
>> Gee ..... what had *I* said?
>
>Cliff:
>
> You tried to take what I said concerning metals and apply it to some
>non metal.

So what you said was invalid?

>>
>> > But to refresh your memory here it is again:
>> >"Free electrons are supposedly one of the main reasons why *METALS*
>> >conduct heat so well compared to other substances." "Metals" emphasized
>> >so you'll have no trouble missing it again.
>>
>> And I posted info on the best (known) room temp. thermal conductor.
>> Which is lots better ...... but conducts about zero electrons.
>> Missed that several times, eh?
>
> I didn't "miss" it at all. It was just irrelevant to my comments about
>metals.

You seem confused about where to place the cart.

>> In addition, John was clearly thinking that water was a good
>> thermal conductor.
>
> As far as liquids go, it is. Liquids ARE what are put in most
>radiators.

See? You don't even begin to grasp any of this.
Just because you find it in an auto radiator does not mean
that it's a good themal conductror.
BTW, You find plastics & rubbers there these days too, right?

And lots of bugs ....

>> On which I commented & with which you found fault .... so NOW
>> it's metals ..... in attempts to change the subject, I expect.
>
> YOU'RE the one that made the statement that "Free electrons have little
>to do with the conduction of heat." I just pointed out that in metals
>they do.

I pointed out counterexamples. You going to salt your car now?

>> >> >> And raising the temperature increases the thermal conductivity while
>> >> >> decreasing the electrical conductivity .....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So electrically conductive saltwater should be an even better by
>> >> >> far thermal conductor than deionized water?
>> >> >
>> >> > Saltwater is obviously not a METAL, now is it.
>> >>
>> >> Why not, all those "free electrons" to conduct all that
>> >> heat .... <G>?
>> >
>> > You're asking why saltwater isn't a metal?? Please define METAL.
>>
>> Gee .... just using your own claimed "reasoning" about electrical
>> conductors ....
>
> As you well know, my comments were concerned about metals. I made it a
>specific point to mention metals in my comments.

About John's claimed thermal conductivity of water being the reason
that it's used in cooling systems?

>> >> >> Electrons play a role in some cases but that's not all that there
>> >> >> is to it.
>> >> >> Like I kept telling John, look at the mass of the electron compared
>> >> >> to atoms then consider Newton's momentum & energy ...
>> >> >
>> >> >===========================================================
>> >> >http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Non-metallic solids transfer heat by lattice vibrations so that there
>> >> >is no net motion of the media as the energy propagates through. Such
>> >> >heat transfer is often described in terms of "phonons", quanta of
>> >> >lattice vibrations. Metals are much better thermal conductors than
>> >> >non-metals because the same mobile electrons which participate in
>> >> >electrical conduction also take part in the transfer of heat.
>> >> >===========================================================
>> >>
>> >> You saw the numbers I posted for Diamond & Silver & forgot already?
>> >
>> > I didn't forget. I just pointed out that the free electrons in metals
>> >are conducive to conduction, thermal as well as electrical. Contrary to
>> >your criticism of John's comments.
>>
>> Clearly you missed the point again then.
>> It's all in the words, right?
>
> Let's do a little test of your commitment to truth and honesty as
>opposed to obfuscation and misdirection.
>
> Please answer the following questions without evasion and/or
>irrelevant
>misdirection: Surprise me.
>
> 1. As far as most liquids go, would water be considered a good
>conductor of heat? Yes or No?
>
> 2. Are free electrons one of the main reasons for metals being
>good
>conductors of heat? Yes or No?
--
Cliff
.

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