Re: Websites 101
- From: John Bokma <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: 26 Aug 2005 20:33:37 GMT
Darren Tipton <news@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 26 Aug 2005 05:08:41 GMT, John Bokma <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
> on the topic of "Re: Websites 101":
>
>>PHP is, uhm, a very bad designed programming language which has its
>>uses.
>
> hmmm, dont really want to start an argument here, but dont quite
> agree. John, can you clarify?
http://tnx.nl/php has a very nice overview and several links to other
sites. Some things have changed in PHP already thoug.
> IME PHP is basically in syntax is extremely similar to C, which is, in
> itself highly structured and used almost universally in some form or
> other. From emdedded software engineering to small linux programs, in
> it's object oriented form (C++) etc.
Similar is not enough. And the syntax in itself is not bad.
> If anyone has ever learned something like C, or C++ (which are
> generally taught at many colleges or universities for software
> engineering) which are what purists would call "real languages"
Not purists, but people who understand very little about programming
languages :-D
> rather
> than interpreted ones such as PHP or Perl, then picking up PHP would
> be a doddle.
Which is untrue. The more similar a language is to an other, the easier it
is to make mistakes. PHP borrows a lot from Perl (more then from C/C++),
however, I disagree that it would be easier to learn for a Perl programmer.
Moreover, a lot of programming languages are roughly based on C syntax.
That's like saying that a lot of mathematics is based on working with
digits.
> It has some very nice and easy ways of interfacing to MySQL
No: it's not nice, nor easy. If you want to see a nice and easy way check
out Java, Perl etc. They use an *abstract* database interface. Meaning that
if you decide that MySQL is not powerful enough, you just have to change
the *driver* instead of renaming each and every function. Most good
designed PHP scripts had their programmers write a wrapper around the
database functions themselves. Bad.
I understand however, that the developers of PHP have at least seen this
huge flaw, and there is now a abstract database interface.
> or any
> other database for that matter, it is almost universally supported in
> terms of web hosting.
>
> It is an ideal candidate to learn.
To learn what? I wouldn't recommend it to learn something about programming
in general (nor Perl for that matter before people start yelling that I am
trying to sell myself :-) )
> If you want to make money from
> developing such as a contractor, the best to learn is probably ASP due
> to the number of jobs available (which is basically a complete hotch
> potch of VBScript, Javascript and bits of Perl),
Eh, that describes PHP much better. PHP is a kind of Perl clown, however,
everything they didn't understand about Perl they tried to "fix". If they
had any clue, something like Ruby, might have been born. Sadly, the people
who worked on the design of the language had very very limited
understanding of doing such a thing.
Note that ASP is a framework, not a language. You can do ASP in Perl even.
> if your a hobbyist or
> prefer to do something none Microsoft, PHP is an ideal candidate and
> is well supported, easy to pick up and develop with.
No programming language is easy to pick up, unless you mean by picking up:
downloading a script, asking on Usenet, webforum, IRC etc how to tweak it,
and in the end have it working, sort off.
If you have to learn PHP from scratch, it's not that much easier (if at
all) to learn compared to languages like Perl, VBScript, Java, etc. Most
people who "learn" PHP don't learn the language. They learn a subset that's
enough to make already broken scripts found on the Internet work (somehow)
on their site.
> I dont know many people who develop in JSP (and actually have never
> used it) so can't comment on that one.
JSP = Java. Since Java is huge, learning Java (which I consider the
language and a lot of the core libraries) is a huge task to undertake.
However, if one limits oneself to JSP I think it's similar in learning time
compared to PHP, Perl (using mod_perl/CGI), ASP languages, .NET languages
limited to web etc.
If there was an easier to learn programming language it would have been
available somewhere in the 70's.
--
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- Websites 101
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- Re: Websites 101
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