Re: When insults had class

On Mar 9, 7:16 pm, paulmr...@xxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 9, 5:44 pm, "Beau G." <mt69...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hey Paul, Frank et al
I started to rebut some rebuttals last night and was very tired (14hr
day) and just crapped out berfore I finished. I was a little
aggravated too with myself for rebutting rebutted rebuttals and the
thread was getting very fragmented.
Anyhoo, let me clear up a couple of things fer ya.
First, I apologize to you Paul. I used a term or two along the way
that you may have found caustic. Sorry for that.

Thank you, I genuinely appreciate that, Beau.





I can be irreverent
at times. Some of my older posts will demonstrate.
Something that I think is important for you to know about me (and
probably the majority of people) is that I have never ever used that
word that you dislike or any other what you might consider pejorative
terms with hatred or murder in my heart. Never ever not once. I am not
capable of it. I wouldn't knowingly associate with anyone that would.
I would discourage it if I found it or was aware of it.
I'll tell ya what I am capable of though. I think I am capable of
hatred. I probably am capable or murder. I think almost anyone is
capable of those given certain stressors and if you think you are not
then look at our recent sad history. In our lifetime we have seen
genocide in Bosnia/Kosovo and Darfur and probably a host of other
places that I haven't mentioned. If you don't think you or anyone is
capable of hatred or murder then try to imagine life in a small
village where the men are rounded up and killed and the women and
children shipped off to God knows where.
I think that would do it for me.
I have a cousin (name unimportant) he is gay. He is an actor in NYC.
I think the world of him and if he was killed or maimed *for any
reason* then I think maybe I would have murder or hatred in my heart.
If it was done *because* he was gay I don't know that that would make
any more or less painful for me. It would still hurt bad.
I'll tell ya a few things about me now. I feel that you may have a
picture in your head of a bible belt/pickup driving/beerdrinking/
deerhunting/gayhating/Hannity&Combsloving/wife beater.

Truthfully, I don't think that at all. Your previous posts don't show
any kind mallice towards any one in this newsgroup, or people in
general.

Couldn't be
further form the truth. I grew up in Northern NJ (USA) 15 miles from
Times Square my whole life. Worked on Wall St for 5-6 yrs and then
went blue collar.. 41 yrs old. And just relocated to Raleigh/Durham
area. Newly married(first marriage)/ baby on the way/ closing on a
house in a few weeks. I got some stuff going on but it's all good. I'm
the son of Irish immigrants to the USA and surprisingly and proudly I
can say that my parents (having grown up in rural Ireland a place that
was still being electrified in the 40's & 50's when they grew up)
never taught/encouraged/fostered *any* bigotry, hatred, racial slurs
or abuse towards anyone. Humor *was* encouraged. I can't explain that
because I do have a some uncles that are pretty bigoted though. (They
learned that here maybe? not many blacks in Ireland in the 40's &
50's)

This is what makes usenet interesting; learning about the pople you
communicate with daily, beyond just the topic of the newsgroup itself.





I guess it all just comes down to personal choice. One of the best
teachers I ever had as a boy used to call me & my brothers "bomb
throwing baby killing micks". This was in the 70's when the IRA was
going hot & heavy. It wasn't said with vitriol or meant to hurt or
insult. It was a bonding/respect/backhanded compliment/ kind of thing.
Whatever. We loved it and if we were upset or hurt by it then I
imagine our father would have gotten an attorney or else kicked the
guys ass. Take your pick.
Likewise, I have known black people over the years to whom I could
say "***, PLEASE !" complete with southern black intonation and
inflection.
I guess this topic isn't unlike the "Happy Holidays" post a while
back wherein another member issued a proclamation to the group a la
"In this group we say such&such".
Nope! Sorry! Wrong Answer! What do we have for the loser, Jim?
You don't like those terms. fine I won't use them around you or about
you. But please don't tell me when/where/how they are appropriate or
not. You might suggest it nicely but that ought to be the end of it.
Then it does become censorship.
You know, I'd like to be a fly on the wall at a womens retreat
weekend to hear what they say about men when we're not around. Or
maybe the gay couple who call each other fags or queers or whatever.
And don't even try to tell me that there aren't any gay people that
use those terms loosely and in fun.

I won't because many of us do. I'm none too pleased about it, simply
because it's hard to condemn anti-gay language, when we use it
ourselves. I've never understood gays calling each other ***, or
blacks calling each other ***--or rather, *** with an "A". Even
Paul Monney has given up using the n-word, after seeing it used
hatefully up close. I will not excuse GLBT's who use anti-gay
language because I think it's a rotten word no matter who is using
it. Thank you for pointing this out, because it's a point too often
overlooked, or just plain ignored. However, that does not excuse
straight people from using anti-gay slurs, whether or not they think
it's a joke.

Ya know, whether I'm on a construction site, or in an art museum, or
in a conference room, or in the woods I think it should be up to me to
determine what is appropriate and also take the heat for it if I screw
up.

You're already heads above most of the population in that regard,
Beau.

People always note differences and make comparisons and tease, mock,
poke fun at each other. They have always done it. It makes things
interesting. It's fun, It's sad, it's pathos, it's enlightening. It's
many many things. There are no absolutes. What's that old maxim?
"never say never"

But people need to take into account whether they know the person
they're teasing, or even their history. I don't use anti-gay slurs
and if I did, would never use them around a victim of gaybashing, just
as I wouldn't make rape jokes around a rape survivor.

I really really think (and I know this may shock you) that you are
the one that is intolerant.

I heartily disagree and would like very for you to elaborate on this.
I am intolerant towards bigoted language and those who use it, but
that's where it ends.

I hope I haven't offended you and I mean you no ill will but people
are people and we are always gonna do and say stupid things and
sometimes mean vicious things. I think it's a case by case basis.

I'm not the least bit offended and I think a little consideration
would go a long way in avoiding hurt feelings. We never know whose
listening when we speak and sometimes our best friends are the ones
hurt the most. Don't take friendship for granted and assume that
other people are prepared to dismiss anti-gay slurs as jokes, just
because.

No hard feelings.

Rarely.



I now cede the floor to the honourable Mr Raposo.

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I really really think (and I know this may shock you) that you are
the one that is intolerant.

"I heartily disagree and would like very for you to elaborate on
this.
I am intolerant towards bigoted language and those who use it, but
that's where it ends."

It goes back to the very germination of this issue. I think your
response was way over the top. Zarky's "joke" was just that, a joke.
So you're mad at the "character" that Zarky was portraying? I don't
think Zarky meant that seriously, I don't think anyone thought that
for one second. It wasn't a shot at you or anyone that is gay. It was
a shot at morons who would say something like that. Again, slowly this
time, it was a shot at morons that would say something like that. Here
we go again back to context. Your rigid intractabliity on this is
amazing. It sounds again like your positon is that noone can use that
word ever for any reason. That's crazy and that *is* censorship.

It's not my cause, it's yours. Good Luck. I will probably never feel
as strongly about this as you but I tell ya it comes across as
fanatical from where I'm standing. Fanatacism does alienate people.
it's not unlike what's been going on the middle east since forever.
Shia's & Sunnis are slaughtering each other over some words in a book
and you wanna get crazed over a word that in this instance wasn't used
at, towards or about you or anyone in this group or in the gay
community.
I just don't get it.

Best of luck.

Beau G.

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