Re: When insults had class

On 9 Mar 2007 06:25:07 -0800, paulmr_ca@xxxxxxxx wrote:

I've never chained myself to anything, but I do have the conviction of
my beliefs which makes life easier to understand. Now, since we used
to wipe with pinecones and corn cobs and leaves; then stepped up to
paper, doesn't it make sense that in 100 years, we'll have yet another
advancement in tp? Wouldn't the greenies be correct then?

No they wouldn't be, because NOW, we do use toilet paper as they
themselves do. When and if we will have an automatic laser *** wiper
in a 100 years, the Greenies will have nothing to do, but rest assured
they will find something else.
If someone makes a mistake, or gets angry, i can understand that, but
it's the hypocrisy in anyone's actions is what irks me. Now to put
that into context, do you laugh at Irish jokes ? I'm sure you do and
i'm sure most other people, be it gay or straight, does.
Except perhaps for the Irish ? You think they may have a problem with
being painted as idiots all the time ? I dunno, what do you think ?

You say the post was an anti-gay slur. I say it was a gag. Perhaps i'm
stupid and can't tell a joke from a slur. Possible, but if that post
was a slur, then every single Irish joke is a direct put down of the
Irish people and we should all be ashamed.

Have you anything to be bitter about? Has anyone written anything in
this newsgroup that bothered you and you did nothing? I remember a
few posts over the years where you went at it with other posters,
rather then resting on your laurels. The only difference is,
occasionally the things you and I challenge posters on are different.

Let's face it, Frank, you will go hammer and tongs with someone over a
disagreement of a watch movement. Yet you want me to ignore an anti-
gay slur.

In the context it was made in, yes. That is what i'm trying to explain
to you. The thread originator had a go at some people with an alleged
limited intellect, who can not fathom up a smart way of flaming
someone. Zarky's post as a direct reply to that, depicted those who
say "***" as the same morons who can not put a sentence together.
He was not advertising the word, he was not making a speech in front
of a primary school, he posted it here for adult consumption, where it
would/should have been understood for what it was by everyone.

Don Quixote thought so too.. :)

Well, you have to admit dreaming the imppossible dream is better than
laying in bed having the priest give you last rights; right?

No, not to me. Daydreaming is a waste of neurons. I feed on reality
and i have realistic expectations. I'm still a few bucks short of that
Aston DV9 and the 150 footer, so i'm not day dreaming about it at all.
Alex might, but he just wants to free load on my yacht at Monaco. ;-)

And we all do, which was my original point. BUT, just as saying "you
***" can be rather rude and worthy of a slapping, it can also be
equally as comical and worthy of a laugh.

My point exactly. The only difference is, I've never seen, or heard
of a *** getting assaulted, or jailed because he's a ***. I
don't see the religious types denouncing bastards and I don't see the
government legislating against bastards.

I'm sure you have also heard of other people being jailed and
assaulted because they were noisy, black, long haired, well dressed,
good looking, ugly, etc..
The thing with humans is that if we want an altercation we will find
it.
You know how many times i've heard and heard about people use their
minority status as an excuse ? When i've escorted out a guy for
spitting on the pinball machine, he was screaming that i'm only doing
that because he was Asian. No mate, you are a fuckwit who spits on the
machine, i don't care if you were born a kangaroo and only recently
took on a human form, you are leaving !
A lot of people try to use that ploy. I'm not denying that there
was(and perhaps still is) a time when what you say did/does happen,
but i think if you look at them all carefully, you will find that
there is usually a very valid reason for being arrested or being
beaten up in a car park.

Your problem is that you
don't see past the word. Words don't do anything, people do.

And people use words as a weapon and usually before an attack, Frank.
That's what you're not seeing. Guns may not kill people, but they
sure do go along for the ride.

Oh please, gay involvement in the scene of all physical confrontations
is minuscule. I have been a night security guard and i know a number
of cops, so i'm still not exactly out of that picture.
There was a period of time when "gay bashing" was a favorite hobby of
some dickheads, but before and after that, wog bashing was also a
hobby and in the '70s Asian bashing was also a good old pastime.
I can guarantee you that a whole lot more new Aussies were beaten or
attempted to be beaten than gays. You will find dickheads everywhere
and those will pick on a the weak to satisfy their stupidity. Most of
them don't even care about whom they will bash, it's just a Saturday
night out on the town for them. You'll also find that it's the same
groups of people which will be the ones responsible for gay bashing,
who will go on and do some wog bashing. So in effect you are blaming
the whole of society because of a few bad apples.


Your quest should not be focused on the word itself, it should work on
the poeple who use them.

Well, isn't that what I've been doing here?

No, you are giving ammunition to the morons. Seeing this exchange, you
have just shown to them, that you are extremely vulnerable to that
word.
What you have to understand is that "they" are not scared of you and
if "they" can get a reaction out of you, then half their job is done.
I'm not easy to knock over, but at one time walking home from the
milkbar, a few guys started yelling crap over the street, trying to
get a response from me. I've ignored them and kept walking fiddling
with my mobile as if i didn't even notice. I'm good, but not 4-5 good.
Once i was past, they stopped and no doubt waited for the next guy who
may give them a reason to "party", unless the divy van i've sent
around got there first.
Point being, yelling back is only useful if you think you can take
them on and finish the job right there. If you can't finish it, you
just make a lot of angry enemies and the best approach is to retreat.

And sitting back and waiting and hoping that the rest of society does
the right thing is the way to go?

Society makes up the world and high scociety dictates how it is run.
Problem for you is, high society tend to be conservative in their
thinking, so until the time when more gays become influential, you'll
just have to sit and wait..

So are many racial slurs, but why do anti-gay slurs get a pass,
Frank? Any number of words can be used everyday and I think that by
pointing out the ignorance of using anti-gay slurs, it can be removed
from the language. If someone uses a racial slur, they're marked as
ignorant. If someone uses an anti-gay slur, they're apparently hip
and should have apologists defending them.

Anti-racial slurs can be just as offensive to the effected person, as
anti-gay slur will be to a gay person. It's just that racism is a far
greater problem worldwide, than the gay issue is.

But it's gone, isn't it? Because people fought against it and stood
up to those who use it. The only difference is, that they had a lot
of help. We have very little.

The word is gone because whites have finally accepted blacks as near
equals. Make no mistake, whites still don't look at coloured people as
equal, just somewhere almost close..

Same with
"poofter", it had a good lifespan, but i rarely hear that nowdays.

What? John Laws in your country called Carson Kressly a "poofter"
several times when he found out that Kressly would be judging a female
beauty contest. Some broadcasting board said it was rude, but that it
was his "right" to use anti-gay slurs. The word has recently been
used dozens of times on the radio and television, Frank.

Laws runs a talk show program. His money is made from creating
controversy. He is a rich up his own arse guy, who simply doesn't care
anymore. If he got fired tomorrow, he would have no problems paying
the bills, so why should he give a damn ? You are bringing up weak
arguments there. Laws and Howard are far from being indicative of the
general population's views.

At least homo was a little more clinical and at least half right. ***
is much worse. As you can see, the slurs just keep getting worse over
the years.

Well, when the biggest spill of gay bashings were occurring here about
15-20 years ago, the word *** was not even in use. "Homo" was the "in"
word, so really, the least offensive one created the worst times in
gay history.

to do with the word it sounds similar to. However, anti-gay slurs are
used everyday and no one seems to bat an eyelash.
Anti-everything is used daily and no one bats an eyelash either.
I have no idea what that point means.

The amount of anti gay slurs per day would be far outweighed by racial
and other slurs.

Meanwhile, there are millions of people being robbed every hour, many
thousands being murdered, swindled, raped etc.. and you think "***" is
a huge issue ? Perspective !

I guess the gloves are comiong off; huh Frank? Yes violent crime
happens to people everyday. But GLBT's are targeted by attackers for
being gay. The government creates specific laws against GLBT's, the
same way they outlaw criminals. Courts uphold discrimination
everyday, the oposite of what they've done with religions, and races.
You need some perspective Frank, if you think anti-gay slurs are not a
big deal. They may not be to you, but try expaling that to the high
school kid who has to hear anti-gay slurs 82 times a week.

It's frigging high school for Christ's sake. How many fat kids do you
think get teased and bullied per day in schools because they are fat ?
Not to mention the racially oriented things being said. German origin
kids are still called nazis, Asians are slants, slopes etc..

No it doesn't, Frank. Bigoted slurs are bigoted slurs. What don't
you understand about that? I am offended by Zarky using *** and then
brushing it off as a joke. Why is his use of the word more important
than my grievence?

So do you presume Zarky is a bigot as well ? Is every comedian who
ever said anything anti racial a flaming bigot ? Why is it that just
because Steady Eddie(an Aussie comedian) who happens to have a mental
disability can make some nasty jokes about the disabled, but others
can't ? Why do wogs think that wog jokes are ok, but only if told by a
wog ?

If a black guy called me a f*ing a*hole, would i say back "feck off
***" ? You bet your arse i would.

I highly doubt that, Frank. You haven't used any racial slurs the
entire time you've been on this newsgroup and I seriously doubt you'd
use them in every day life.

Don't underestimate my vocabulary. If i'm pushed over the edge, my
civilness goes out the window.

And I assume you've known your milk bar man for a while? That's the
difference. You didn't call him a "wog" or whatever that slang is.
You called him a Lebo, I assume for Lebonese, which isn't much
different than calling someone a Swede, a Scot, or a Turk--or an
Aussie.

Wog is a joke now. Nobody uses it as a slur.
Lebo is quite bad. You do not call a Lebanese a Lebo, because that is
his cue to attack. It would be about as bad as calling someone a ***
to their face. In a serious manner of course.

Would you? Or are you saying if you heard someone yelling for help,
you wouldn't even call the police? However, in Denver a college woman
was raped after rebuffing the advances of a man by telling him she is
a lesbian and in a relationship. Him and his friend beat her and
raped her and left her on the street. Besides, the only thing that
will save the next rape victim as a Glock .380 and a good aim.

Right and do you think if she said that she was a hetero and single,
they would have stopped and said "oh, sorry, we were looking for a
lesbo today" and left ? Rape is all about urges and power, and rapists
don't care about your sexual preferences, once you become their target
you are "it".
See this is one of those things that really irk me about groups just
pushing too hard to prove their point by latching onto the thinnest of
straws.
You single that case out, where the person raped happened to be a
lesbian and by that you are trying to imply that the rape was due
simply because of her being a lesbian. That's just wrong.

Again, it is not a silly word, Frank. It's an ignorant word used to
treat people like inferior, second class citizens. I understand that
you're trying to defend your defense of Zarky's "joke", but I will not
budge an inch on this.

Paul, there are hundreds of words which are offensive to various
people and are used all over in common conversation.

And again to claim that anti-gay attitudes aren't a "real" prblem is
quite ignorant. I know many straight people turn a blind eye to the
garbage we have to put up with, but claiming we don't have real
problems is stupid, Frank. What is the criteria for a problem to be
"real", Frank? Please explain.

All real problems are real to someone. An annoying itch on my toe
would be very "real" to me, but not to you. If i pass that itch on to
you, then it becomes your problem too, but Jim and Jill won't care..
So you see, the brutal truth is that the world in general doesn't
care. It is your job as a community trying to fit in, to manage to fit
in and that won't happen too easily by having a go at every person who
happens to make fun of you or indeed swear at you. Every time you
roast a person for saying something anti-gay, you are also inciting
many others who may have been borderline. True, you may also enlighten
others, but while you may take one step forward, you will take one
back as well. Result is, you become dormant where you are.

Well, John Major is an ex Pommie PM, but you probably meant Howard. :)
Conservatives are like that. Since when does the average person agree
with a politician's decision ?

My mistake. And since he's been elected and may possible win the next
election, clearly many voters agree with him implicitly.

Oh c'mon Paul. He is not being elected on his strong anti-gay agenda.
Again, the gay issues are a virtual non event, compared to employment,
poverty, finances, health, environment, workers rights, wheat to Iraq
scandal, business, Telstra sale, water conservation, want to go on ?
The gay issues will only be raised at the election campaign, if the
opposition thinks it can give them a slight edge and it will be a
flash in the pan, because it is not a pressing issue.

And when was the last time you saw two men kissing on the street? Gay
bashings don't happen in your neck of the woods? Excuse me, poofter-
bashings. Gays may not be given the cold shoulder, but we aren't
invited to the party either. We are "given" just as much freedom as
straight people think we should get. No more, no less.

Indeed. And you have to understand that, that is how it works.
Majority rules and whether you like it or not, that will always be the
way. And everything you say that happens to gays happens to a whole
bunch of other communities who are trying to mix into that majority.
This is not unique just to the gay community, this is why they are
*specified* as "gay community", because they are segregated from what
is prescribed as the common global community.

And my mechanic is a Brazilian, whose learning English. I don't see
what your barber has to with anti-gay slurs.

Ahhha ! Now you see, i know for a fact that if you called him a barber
to his face, he would rip into you. He is a "hair dresser".
Funny how people can get upset about some words, isn't it ? ;-p

I know that and accept it. However in the mean time, my fighting
against anti-gay slurs is not wrong. Unless your inferring that by
doing so, we must be punished and all our equality will be removed.

You do what you think you have to do, i'm merely explaining that in my
opinion what you did here, was contra productive to your cause.

What you all have to understand is that for most people homosexualty
is not considered "normal", despite some teachings otherwise, but
nature really puts a fork into that work when it comes to the basis of
life being reproduction.

Since homosexuality happens in the animal world along side of
hetersexuality, I would challenge the assertion that it isn't
"natural." And since many straight couples cannot have children, yet
there are 6 billion people on the earth, I don't think procreation
comes into the picture as it would have 5 million years ago.

Kiddies.. look away now, watch something nice made just for you, like
Barbarella or something.. :)

Yes, that is an old favorite. However, animals act on instincts. When
they get a hardon they do what they need to do, to satisfy their
urges..just as we do in the privacy of our toilets, bedrooms etc.. but
they don't have a thumb so they have to resort to other means. :-)
They also use trees, rocks, the ground and any other objects they can
get their bit on. Yet, I'm not aware of a tree humping community.. ;-p

There is no emotion involved and it is not something they will
continue with if a female arrives in the forest. And i'd dare to to
say that lesbianism is non existent in the animal kingdom.

So i'd say all that is utter rubbish. It's a personal choice, if
perhaps driven by certain genes, but that is all there is to it.
And no, i have no real problems with it, i treat it the same way i
treat religion. If it works for you, then that's good for you, but
let's not tell me that the Earth is flat, because i won't buy it.

The only reason this is such a big issue is because you are a group,
arguably a monority, who wants to be accepted as equals in a world
where equality is only used in maths.

But some people are more equal than others, apprently, outside of math
class, Frank.

Of course. No argument there.

Add it to the list of the disabled, the
coloured, the needy, the bikeys, the hippies, the body piercing
addicts, the politicians, the cops and George Bush.

I think you could have chossen a more savoury list that didn't include
a few of those pople.

Why ? They are all groups of people who have been and still being
discriminated against, sweared at and made fun of. Why would you
discount those in favor of the gay community ?

Have you bothered to read any of the other posts, Frank? Being called
a *** can get you killed. You don't want to believe that, then fine.
Next time you go to see your hairdresser, call him a *** and see how
he reacts. Maybe then you'll finally understand. You're trying to
defend the indefensible, Frank. I don' know why. You of all people I
expected better from.

I am defending it in the context it was made in, Paul. There is
nothing you can say that will change my mind that you've over reacted.
If you can't laugh at yourself, you can't expect others to laugh with
you. That was one of those posts, that if you found it offensive, you
shoudl have let it go. Killfile the guy, whatever..

Anwyay, we're probably pissing off the locals by now. :)
If you do want to go on with this, do cut out all that you don't see
vital to reply to, because we are killing a tree per post by now and
next we'll both have the Greenies on our backs.. ;-)

--

Regards, Frank
.