Re: Orient Star WZ0021FH (black dial) first impression

I'm voting with Olaf on this one. The automotive analogy is not perfect but
it's pretty good. Most Porsche's drive 35 mph to pick up groceries, so their
racing capabilities are not put to full use in ordinary wear either.
Likewise, while everyday performance between a modern laser poised $10
movement and a chronometer grade watch may not differ greatly, if you were
to "stress" the watches by subjecting them to extremes of temperature, etc.
the difference would become apparent. In fact I've noticed that my Miyota
based Invicta, which does very well when I'm on my usual routine, can go off
significantly if I take a trip.

Whether hacking and crown winding are absolutely necessary or not, their
omission is a signifier for a extreme low end movement where the
manufacturer is trying to save pennies by cutting out ever "unnecessary"
feature. It doesn't make a lot of sense to start out with such a lowest of
the low movement and then finish it to a higher level when there are so many
better movements around that would benefit more from better finish .
Japanese pride would dictate that they would refuse to put a foreign
movement (e.g. ETA) in the flagship movement of their company, but I think
Orient should have reached into the parts bin of its sister company Seiko
and started with the 4S15, whose base cost would have still allowed them to
come in under the $1000 price point. 4S15 is both hacking and crown
winding. It's unclear though whether the tooling for the 4S15 is still
around or if Seiko has any NOS ones in its inventory.

"John S." <hjsjms@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1129902770.958881.48690@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Olaf Peuss wrote:
> John S. wrote:
>
> > Well, one could make the same sweeping generalization about watch
> > companies using ETA 2824 movements. Ignoring any refinements by the
> > watch maker they are all the same
>
> I beg to differ between technical refinements and beautiful-on-the-eye,
> but technically irrelevant decoration. Apart from everything else, I
> would never spent $1,000 or more on a watch with a 2824-2 movement. In
> any watch that is above $800-900, I'd expect a 2892-A2 as the minimal
> requirement.

You are missing the point.

>
>
> > I cannot think of two features that are more over-rated and of little
> > real value than manual winding or hacking.
>
> And I cannot think of any other statement about automatic movements that
> is as debatable as yours.
>
>
> > Of what possible practical use is the ability to handwind an automatic
> > movement. Unless the watch is so poorly designed or in such a poor
> > state of repair that handwinding is the only way to get power to the
> > mainspring. Regular handwinding will assure your watchmaker of full
> > employment opportunities.
>
> NACK. Every halfway decent automatic movement features a slip clutch
> which protects the mainspring from being overwound. And it certainly
> isn't better for the movement if you have to shake your watch like a
> cocktail shaker in order to fully wind up the mainspring - and it looks
> quite daft, too. ;-)

But why on earth would one want to fully hand wind an automatic
movement - that defeats the very purpose of the very efficient auto
winding system found in most watches. And the wear comes on the crown
and winding mechanism.


>
>
> > And who in the world needs to stop the
> > seconds hand precisely on the hour. Not many of us.
>
> YOU might not feel the need to set your watch precisely, but does that
> mean it's unnecessary in general just because YOU don't need it?

Well, I have yet to find a purpose for it. I'm not a hollywood actor
playing in some B grade war movie so I don't have to tell the guys to
"Synchronize our Watches" for the invasion. The seconds hand serves
most of us as a visual indication that the movement is running and most
likely accurate. Beyond that whether it passes 12:00 at the same time
the minute hand passes the next marker is pretty much useless
information in daily living.

One can pass idle time keeping things like that in sync, but that's
about it. Sort of like running a chrono all the time providing some
level of visual entertainment, but that's about it.


>
>
> >>You can get German watches, most of which with ETA movements, that offer
> >>a material and finish quality that is on par with the better Swiss
> >>watches, and with a higher grade movement than the Japanese watches
> >>feature, and that all for less money (Stowa, Tutima, Mühle-Glashütte,
> >>Marcello C (who offer a lot more than just their Rolex knock-off Nettuno
> >>3) and others) than Orient Star charges for their Royal series.
> > Actually the fit, design and finish of the Star Royal is very well
> > done, much better than the examples provided.
>
> 1. Fit and design are more than anything a matter of personal
> preference. I can't say that I like the design of the O.S.R. very much
> but I would never say that the design is inferior to that of a [any
> other brand here]. It's different and above all, it's a matter of taste
> whether you are appealed by it, or not.
>
> 2. A $10 movement remains a $10 movement no matter how much labour one
> invests in decorating it nicely. And also, no matter how much cost and
> labour go into casing such a beautifully decorated $10 movement in a
> nicely finished watchcase, it will be no more than a nicely decorated
> $10 movement in a nicely finished case. It's as if you put an 2.0 litre
> off-the-shelf sedan engine into a Porsche sportscar - such an engine
> won't become a Porsche engine no matter how much time you spend on
> polishing and decorating the engine parts, and no matter how much time
> you spend on designing and finishing the chassis, body and interior of
> the car.

Truth be said the movements found in most watches represent a very
small portion of the overall cost of a watch. The automotive analogy
really doesn't work here because the gasoline engne is expected to do
so much more in a race car. If a baseline ETA 2824 or Seiko 4S15 can
be timed to run with accuracy under 5 seconds per day then what's the
point of pouring needless more money into a movement.


>
> Best regards,
> OP


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