Re: HOT WATER ON DEMAND, HEATERS



On Nov 25, 8:07 am, trad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 25, 7:35 am, ransley <mark.ransle...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Nov 25, 2:33 am, harry <haroldhr...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 24, 8:45 pm, ransley <mark.ransle...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 24, 12:53 pm, harry <haroldhr...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

 Your  own, UK, certified testing standard, you are a nuts to keep
this crap up because none are certified over 100%, none are even 91%.
Your rating is more conservative than our US rating, read it and
please stop the missinformation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's one.....
<http://www.warmflow.co.uk/pdf/Gas_Boiler_Brochure.pdf>

Hang it up Harry your to old for this. SEDBUK shows no Warmflow over
90.4% Thats your UKs agencys ratings.  But just to show you you can`t
even read a simple spec sheet . The Warmflow GS 25a is a Sedbuk A
class.  It has an input rating of  KW  25    output KW  24.6.  Now you
simply take out your pencil, sharpen it, get some clean paper  and
subtract the two numbers and you will see your spec sheet shows it to
be  97.6% efficient. Just what I said that 98% is the high and nothing
is at or over 100%. Its real simple to grasp Harry, output is less
than input. Hey Harry, I own the Brooklyn Bridge, I will sell it to
you real cheap

Try  sa...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The SEDBUK things is for comparative tests on available boilers.  They
probably haven't got round to testing this one (or updating their
website)

I can see you still haven't grasped the different between net and
gross calorific values.

What you say is true, but more heat is recovered by the condensing  of
combustion gases. The figure given covers the chemical energy
recovered from burning the gas. The additional heat recovered comes
from the physical conversion of the water vapour to liquid.

Because they were comparing condensing and non-condensing boilers at
one stage they get these figures of over 100%, obviously only for
condensing boilers.  Equally obviously not every condensing boiler has
efficiency of over 100%, it depends on how big and how well designed
is the heat exchanger. Also very important the flows of water inside
the heatX and gases outside.
If you look at the layout in the pictures, you will see the design is
pretty untraditional.
Excess air requirements are reduced.  The exhaust gases also pre-heat
the incoming air in most cases.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

 . The Warmflow GS 25A is second on Sedbuks test list of Warmflow
boilers. It is up to date, is it rated by Sedbuk 88.7% . Warmflow
rates it 97.6% and you still think its over 100%    Quit making up
lies. You didnt eve post Warmflows most efficient unit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm with you Mr. Ransley.   I did a bit of googling and came up with
this nice explanation of how you get 100%+ efficiency:

http://www.blesi-evans.com/102%20percent%20efficiency.pdf

It's exactly as I tried to explain to Harry many posts ago.  You can
get to 100%+ theoretically or in a lab type experiment by condensing
the exhaust gas down to temps lower than the incoming combustion air
and fuel.   So, you not only get all the heat from the combustion, but
you also extract the heat that the air and fuel had before it was
burned.   Take incoming gas at 50F and incoming combustion air at 50F
and extract all the heat so that the flue gas is at 35F.   Now, you've
achieved over 100% efficiency.    Only problem is, it's totally
meaningless in the real world of residential or commercial boilers.
An example of where it would be effective if you had an industrial
process where you actually needed to heat up a fluid that was 10F.
Then you could transfer the flue gas heat to it, and cool the flue gas
down to 35.   In the case of a home boiler, there is no place colder
than the 50 ambient to transfer the remaining heat from the flue gases
to.   Another way of looking at this is that you could get free heat
out of the incoming gas and air without burning it all by transfering
the heat via a heat exchanger to some other fluid that is at lower
temp.   The only problem is that in virtually all boiler applications,
there is no such other lower temp fluid to transfer it too.

 As for the kind of applications we're talking about here, these
claims of 100%+ efficiency are just a marketing and spec playing game
to fool guys like Harry into thinking that one company's boiler is far
better than anothers when they are in fact the same.   That's why you
find the claims in the marketing hype.  When you read the actual spec
sheet, as in the case of the one Harry provided, nothing indicates
it's 100%+ efficient.   Nor does it show up in any govt list of
efficient boilers.  Yet it has Harry convinced that the Britts are
onto some true miracle.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Its like the Hydrogen Generators to increase gas milage, or magnets,
air turbulators, fuel ionizers, electronic bug repellers, pipe
magnetic delimers and the thousands of scams we get everyday. WC
Fields said it best, "there is a sucker born every minute".

Actualy his refrenced boiler is at SEDBUK and has a top A class
rating of 88.7%. Try the SEDBUK site search for Warmflow, the GS25A is
second on the list. SEDBUK tries to do a real world test, their
conservative results you should realise. I think their testing is more
real world than US testing. But Warmflow has even better models Harry
missed at Warmflows site and Sedbuk.
.



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