Re: what is the differences between whole house surge protectors?

On Mar 9, 3:30 am, westom <west...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 8, 1:17 pm, bud-- <remove.budn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

It is the religious belief in earthing. Apparently, because it makes him
look so stupid,  w doesn't want to clearly say what he believes - that
plug-in suppressors do not work.

  Bud again does what he does routinely.  First, Bud follows me
everywhere to promote plug-in protectors.  Eventually he then posts
insults.  Bud is a salesman; a promoter for plug-in protectors.  He
does not have design experience; literally witnessing direct strikes
without damage.

  Bud repeatedly posts citations that contradict his claims.  Quotes
from his NIST citation:

You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.
What these protective devices do is neither suppress nor arrest
a surge, but simply divert it to ground, where it can do no harm.

   What does Bud's plug-in protector do?  Without earthing, it must
stop or absorb surges.  How does that tiny part inside a power strip
absorb or stop what 3 miles of sky could not stop?  Bud refuses to
answer.  Instead, Bud claims his protector clamps surges to nothing.
His magic box will make a surge disappear?  Clamping to nothing will
dissipate surge energy?  Of course not.

 Why does every telco everywhere in the world not use Bud’s
protectors?  They need protection that actually works and costs much
less money.  An effective protector makes a short connection to
earth.  Telcos use effective ‘whole house’ protectors.  Even Bud's
NIST citation bluntly says that on page 17:

A very important point to keep in mind is that your
surge protector will work by diverting the surges to
ground.  The best surge protection in the world can
be useless if grounding is not done properly.

  Protectors promoted by Bud have no dedicated earth ground.  Somehow
it will magically dissipate surge energy?  Worse, an adjacent
protector may even earth a surge destructively through adjacent
appliances.  Just another reason why surges must be earthed before
entering a building.  Just another reason why telcos don’t waste money
on power strip protectors.

  From Southwest Bell's FAQ on Surge protection:



  How can I protect my DSL/dialup equipment from surges? (#10431)
Surge protection takes on many forms, but always involves the following
components: Grounding bonding and surge protectors. ...
Grounding is required to provide the surge protector with a path to dump
the excess energy to earth. A proper ground system is a mandatory
requirement of surge protection. Without a proper ground, a surge
protector has no way to disburse the excess energy and will fail to
protect downstream equipment.
Bonding is required to electrically connect together the various grounds
of the services entering the premises. Without bonding, a surge may still
enter a premise after firing over a surge protector, which will attempt to
pass the excess energy to its ground with any additional energy that the
services surge protector ground cannot instantly handle, traveling into
and through protected equipment, damaging that equipment in the
process.  ...
Now, if all the various service entrance grounds are bonded together
there are no additional paths to ground through the premise. Even if all of
the grounds cannot instantly absorb the energy, the lack of additional
paths to ground through the premise prevents the excess energy from
seeking out any additional grounds through that premise and the electronic
equipment within. As such, the excess energy remains in the ground
system until dissipated, sparing the protected equipment from
damage. ...
By far, the whole house hardwired surge protectors provide the best
protection. When a whole house primary surge protector is installed at the
service entrance, it will provide a solid first line of defense against surges
which enter from the power company’s service entrance feed.

  Should the reader learn reality, then profits are at risk.  So Bud
1) follows me everywhere, 2) to post insults.

  If honest, Bud would post a manufacturer numeric specs that claims
plug-in protector protection.  Bud always refuses.  No power strip
protector manufacturer claims to protect from the typically
destructive surge.  No specs exist.  An effective protector means
protection already inside every appliance is not overwhelmed.

 Earth one 'whole house' protector.  Then energy from direct lightning
strikes is harmlessly dissipated in earth – as Southwest Bell and NIST
both state.  A properly sized and properly earthed 'whole house'
protector means nobody even knows a surge existed.

  Effective protection means even the protector is not harmed.  Many
have seen damaged power strip protectors – no effective protection.
Effective 'whole house' protectors are sized to earth even direct
lightning strikes without damage. Numbers that say so posted
previously.

  Detailed above is how even the US Air Force, Sun Microsystems,
munitions storage dumps, FCC, NASA, every telephone company,
commercial radio and TV stations ... how surge protection is installed
to not have damage. In every case, a protector makes a short
connection to single point earth ground; for both conductivity and
equipotential.  An engineer knows this.  A sales promoter will reply
with mockery and insults.  He will continue posting until he has the
last word.  He does this everywhere.  Sales are at risk.

  So where are those manufacturer spec numbers that Bud refuses to
provide?

Tom W.

What is it that actually does the damage when a consumer electronic
device is damaged during a voltage spike? Is it voltage? No it is
current that flows in a large enough amperage to be destructive. How
much that is varies with the nature of the device. What controls how
much current will flow through the device in question? Answer: The
total impedance of the pathway and the voltage imposed across the
pathway. How much current will flow if the voltage on one side of the
device to be protected is zero relative to ground and the voltage on
the other side is 1000 relative to ground at an impedance of say 1 k
ohm. Will the current be different if the voltage on the first point
were 10,000 volts and the voltage at the second point were 11,000
volts across the same device? Please answer that question. If your
answer is anything other then the current flow would be exactly the
same you have discredited yourself. What happens to the current flow
if the voltage at the first point is 500,000 volts and the voltage at
the second point is 501,000? Now lets install a surge protective
device that will limit the difference across those same two points to
440 volts and at any point above 440 volts makes the effective
difference much lower then 440 by bypassing the current around the
device. How much current will flow now? The answer is the total
current flow through the device will be less then a destructive
current flow. Fully effective protection does not have to limit the
voltage to ground. It only has to limit the current through the
device to be protected. As long as the surge protective device
provides a low enough impedance pathway around the device to be
protected that the voltage across the protected device is held to a
low enough value not enough current will be forced through the
protected device to damage it. Success! And to achieve that success
all we have to do is limit the voltage across the thing we are trying
to protect to a voltage that will not force enough coulombs of
electrons through the protected circuit fast enough to cause damage.
Aircraft are struck by lightning quite frequently. Their on board
electronics usually survive those events. The last time I flew I
didn't see some endless super conductor trailing behind the aircraft
until it eventually touched the ground. How then is it possible to
provide protection to the extremely delicate and sophisticated
electronics on the aircraft. Hint: It does not have a thing to do
with grounding. It has everything to do with bonding and installing
effective bypass circuits to shunt any unwanted current flow around
the electronics that require protection.

--
Tom Horne
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Help With Computer Lockups
    ... That surge protector does ... and comprehensive diagnostics ... heat is not a reason for failure. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support)
  • Re: what is the differences between whole house surge protectors?
    ... Bud again does what he does routinely. ...   Bud repeatedly posts citations that contradict his claims. ... Bud claims his protector clamps surges to nothing. ... Grounding is required to provide the surge protector with a path to dump ...
    (alt.home.repair)
  • Re: Power surge safety
    ... If the strike is close enough, even disconnecting the power cord may not ... >>>replacing your surge protector every once in a while. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics)
  • Re: Power surge safety
    ... Just need drivers (so windows and the UPS can talk to each other). ... >> replacing your surge protector every once in a while. ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics)
  • Re: Lightning Strike
    ... I think bud and west's comments need to be put into some kind of ... I've always maintained that a surge protector will ... not stop a lightening strike. ...
    (uk.people.silversurfers)
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