Re: Propane and electric pump heat questions
- From: trader4@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:02:23 -0800 (PST)
On Feb 12, 3:57 pm, Bubba <LiKeAlAkErem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:00:07 -0800 (PST), trad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Feb 12, 10:15 am, Bubba <LiKeAlAkErem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:40:37 -0800 (PST), "Hustlin' Hank"
<ninebal...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Feb 11, 7:36?pm, Bubba <LiKeAlAkErem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The heat pump is only effecient down to about 35 degrees.
Sorry Hank. That sentence above from you was a totally stupid bullshit
statement from one that has no idea what a heat pump can do.
Bubba
To call my reply "stupid bullshit" isn't winning you any friends.
I had a heat pump in my last house 4 years ago. I stand by my
statement that it is only efficient down to "about" 35 degrees. Below
that, it is cheaper to use other heating methods. I didn't say it
wouldn't heat below 35, it just isn't economical. Check the facts.
"Feeling warm" is a matter of opinion. I like to sit around in a t-
shirt, so, it wasn't warm to me. I may have felt warm if I'd wear a
sweat shirt. Why do people like fireplaces? I'll tell you. Because it
makes "them" feel warm.
Hank <~~~wonders if there is "smart bullshit"
Sorry Hank but I still call your reply TOTAL BULLSHIT! What does that
have to do with winning friends?
Simple test. There are all kinds of papers that came with your heat
pump when it was installed (if not, you can find them online.) One of
those has the performance data for your heat pump. Check them out.
Heat pumps can be very efficient even down to 0 degrees depending on
your model. Look at the COP's at the lower temps. IF you dont know
what that is then you dont need to be commenting.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Let's see what some others have to say about the efficiency of heat
pumps as the outside temps drop:
http://www.hannabery.com/faq4.shtml
Hannabery HVAC, Pennsylvania
Now with 4 locations Serving Eastern Pennsylvania Homeowners and
Businesses for over 30 years!
"In other words, if you set your thermostat for 71 degrees in the
winter and your house only seems to get up to 69 degrees. This problem
generates many service calls. And sometimes this is caused by a
genuine problem but unfortunately, in extremely, cold weather even a
properly working heat pump may have trouble maintaining desired
temperature.
Why is this? When it gets below a certain temperature, in our area
around 35 degrees a heat pump loses efficiency and cannot keep up with
the heat loss of the structure. "
Which is exactly what Hank stated. BTW, Bubba, Mr. HVAC Pro, where's
your website?
Or how about this, from an electric company:
www.horryelectric.com/article.aspx?categID=11&articleID=892
"2. Auxiliary heat light “ON” (located on thermostat).
• Supplimentary heaters are providing heat (usually
when outside temperature is lower than the balance
point, generally 35° or less)."
Oh wait, it gets better. Here they address how with a heat pump, the
air coming out of the registers will feel cooler than other heating
systems. Which is something else Hank stated, which compelled you to
call him names:
"The coils of your heat pump operate at lower heat levels than
fossil fuel systems. Air at the supply grills almost always has a
temperature ranging from 85° to 106°F in the winter. Air at the
registers may feel cool compared to that from other heating
systems which operate at much higher temperatures for a shorter
length of time."
Or how about this from the Dept of Energy:
http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/space_heating_cooling...
"When outdoor temperatures fall below 40°F, a less-efficient panel of
electric resistance coils, similar to those in your toaster, kicks in
to provide indoor heating. This is why air-source heat pumps aren't
always very efficient for heating in areas with cold winters. Some
units now have gas-fired backup furnaces instead of electric
resistance coils, allowing them to operate more efficiently"
"Although air-source heat pumps can be used in nearly all parts of the
United States, they do not generally perform well over extended
periods of sub-freezing temperatures. In regions with sub-freezing
winter temperatures, it may not be cost effective to meet all your
heating needs with a standard air-source heat pump."
Now, who should know more about energy and efficiency? The DOE or
Bubba?
Once again Trader, you show your incompetence. You obviously dont
understand energy and what it costs and what it does.
A heat pump is a very efficient machine. It uses electricity but at a
much better efficiency than if you were to use just straight electric
strip heaters. Sometimes at almost a 4 to 1 ratio.
No s*** Sherlock. You figure that out all by yourself? The piece
you're missing here is that amount of heat that you get for the amount
of electricity consumed declines as the temp differential between the
inside temp and the outside temp increases. In other words, heat
pumps become LESS EFFICIENT the lower the outside temp. Which is
exactly the point Hank was making when you called his post stupid BS.
It depends on the relative cost of the electric and the alternative
fuels, but in many cases below 35, it costs less to use other fuels,
like natural gas. Which is why air based heat pumps are not
generally used in cold northern climates. Or if they are used, they
have a duel fuel system, like nat gas. Maybe you haven't noticed. If
you paid attention, the discussion was about Boston. In fact, that
is exactly what the OP has. A heat pump system with additional heat
from propane.
And once again, I give you links to HVAC companies and the DOE that
back up both points of Hank's post, and you just ignore it.
My heat pump warms
my house very well at 35 degrees. Piece of cake actually. Certainly
the air coming out of the registers is cooler than a gas, or oil
furnace. But guess what? It does heat the house to what temp I want it
at when its 35 degrees outside and even lower.
The obvious point Hank was making is that below somewhere around 35,
the efficiency of the heat pump has dropped so that you'd spend less
money using another fuel, like nat gas.
It also uses less and
less electricity, the colder it gets outside but in turn produces less
btu's of heat.
It's using MORE electricity per BTU of heat that's being generated in
the house. That's all that anyone cares about. My gas furnace would
use zero fuel too, if it wasn't putting out any heat.
Then, some magic happens.
I can understand how it seems like magic to someone like you, who
eschews science, engineering and education.
At a certain point, (it
happens to be called the balance point of the home), the heat pump can
no longer keep up with the heating needs of the house and the backup
heat takes over. Is this all to hard for you trader? I know this is
all way over your head trader but please try to follow along. Maybe
one day you will actually learn something and I might even let you be
like me.
35 degrees?! Wow Trader. You are one dumb sonz-a-biatch.
Do I need to point you to one of the performance specs of a heat pump
so you can understand what heat a heat pump can produce?
Bubba- Hide quoted text -
Just glad I never have to let a hack like you anywhere near my house.
.
- References:
- Propane and electric pump heat questions
- From: PB2
- Re: Propane and electric pump heat questions
- From: Hustlin' Hank
- Re: Propane and electric pump heat questions
- From: Hustlin' Hank
- Re: Propane and electric pump heat questions
- From: trader4
- Propane and electric pump heat questions
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