Re: TV service query ? ? ?
- From: "Jim2009" <Noemail@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:55:39 -0600
<trader4@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
On Jan 21, 3:58 pm, "Jim2009" <Noem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<trad...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
On Jan 21, 2:57 am, "Jim2009" <Noem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Ray" <rayj.b...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
This query seeks experience of others on cable, digital, and satellite
We live in a six-unit apartment building. Is it possible to get a
cable or satellite service for the entire building -- obviously at
cost? It would seem to me no different than getting service in a
single-family residence with TVs in six rooms.
I suppose I could also ask if it might be possible to get a single
internet service, using wireless, which would give every unit a
connection. Actually, you probably could do that without the server
But, as Richard Nixon so eloquently said, "that would be wrong."
Sharing an Internet connection is easy, all you need is your cable modem
a wireless router. Many routers allow up to 50 connections. You might
a router with extended coverage (see wireless standards). Linksys is the
best brand. Each user must then have a wireless adapter installed in
PC. PCI Adapters for desktops, PCMCIA (cards for laptops, most new
have built in wireless) or a USB wireless adapter that plugs into your
port and can be used with any PC.
See more info athttp://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/home
You could run the Router OPEN, meaning anyone could access the network
better yet password protect your network and provide approved users with
the network password. Security for wireless networks use to be more
difficult to setup, thus there were many OPEN networks, but todays
makes it quite easy to accomplish a secure WAN.
Having mulitple users on the same network is not an issue.
There are actually multiple issues:
1 - Is it permissible in the contract with the cable company?
1A) No, it would have to be a hush-hush deal with your neighbors. "Open'
access (unprotected router) are not allowed by many cable providers. And
sharing of a PSW protected router is I'm sure a no-no too, but it's not
your sharing a physical cable, so there's little a cable company can do.
I wouldn't be too sure about that. Various states have specific laws
covering cable service and what constitutes theft of service. I would
not be surprised to find that in some cases, that in addition to civil
exposure, you might actually have the possibility of criminal
Yeah, I pretty sure these is a difference between tracing a physical shared
cable and a wireless connection that you can not see.
Is it highly likely? Probably not. But suppose the guy in 6b gets
pissed off at you, decides to rat you out, and calls the cable company
and tells them what's been going on. You want to be the guy with the
contract with the cable company for one legitimate internet service?
What's been going on? He hacked my router, hacking is a criminal offense!
Apartment people do this all the time, but it's usually not a shared deal,
just a few non-techs with Open Access being taken advantage of by techs.
Someone getting into your wireless service without your knowledge and
permission is an entirely different situation from you getting one
legitimate service and then sharing it by becoming the network
administrator, collecting the payments from others, etc.
Oh, so you recommend he should just set up an OPEN router and let other
discoved it, OK.
2 - How much bandwith the service provides versus what loads all the
different users will be placing on it.
2A) My cable provider has 3 levels, 1.5 Mbps, 8 Mbps, and 20 Mbps. Many
people still use dial-up at 56 Kbps! How many times will 56K go into 1.5
Sure, just as I'm sure there are many people still running Win98 on a
386. But it's not the typical scenario today. What is more typical
is to have users downloading r/t video, large video files, or other
Your not downloading shit unless your using a binary news reader with
Your sharing the bandwith of the cable anyways with all your neighbors
if they all had separate paying accounts, but with one modem your bandwith
is limited to your provider level.
Yes, but so what? I have around 1.5mbits up, 4.5 down and the system
can handle that with the typical load of all the others on the entire
cable system. I periodically benchmark it. Even so, it can take
some time to download larger files. I would not want to split my
bandwith with 5 other users.
Larger files.... LOL.... give me some sizes? Even if you could find a
large file on the internet, you would still only be using one connection,
one connection can only use so much bandwith. You been watching too many
Cable company commercials where they keep trying to sell you faster and
faster speeds when you don't need them.
Even at a 1.5 Mbps account, several
surfers would get along fine. In the router set-up you can restrict
the banwith of each user if needed but this is probably not necessary.
Here is a cut and paste "Did you know your cable speed will vary depending
on the usage pattern of your neighbors? Cable modem services share
among subscribers in a locality. The same cable line connects to many
households. If many of your neighbors access the Internet simulataneously,
it is a distinct possibility that cable speeds for you (and them) will
decrease significantly during those times."
Yes, which is a good reason why you probably don't want to take the
bandwith that you already have and split it 6 ways
That statement makes no sense. First of all you not splitting it 6 ways,
your sharing it 6 ways.
3 - Can you get good coverage for all the apts?
3 A) Thats not an issue with todays hardware, proper placing of equipment
may be needed. For example it would be best if the router was near the
center of the building and not down in a corner basement.
That is precisely the issue. Who's gonna screw around to find the
right solution and the right place to put it? Suppose you buy a
bunch of gear and it don't work where you thought you could put it?
Of course you can ultimatley deliver a wireless solution. My point
was you may not be able to cover 6 apartments with a typical home
router, ie the kind many cable companies give you for free, or an easy
solution, etc. I've been in plenty of expensive hotels with wireless
where coverage was spotty and speed was poor.
You obviously know little or nothing about todays extended routers and how
easy they are to setup. If you buy something and it does not work take it
back to Bestbuy and get a refund. You don't get out of the house much huh?
Your typical home router is based upon commerial hardware that has been in
use for years before people at home starting installing them. Buy Linksys!
So the hotel had poor service, so what, thier pool probably had shit in it
too. How old is your PC?
Cable companies don't give away anything for free. If they did it would be
4 - Who's going to administer the network and be the guy that gets
called when the guy in 6b says his wireless internet is out, or
someone wants to change their email address, etc.
4A) Something to be worked among friends. And just use Yahoo, or Hotmail
Friends? The guys is talking about 6 apartments. Who knows who is
in any of them now or the future?
Who knows? Only the OP knows, and who cares about future tenants, figure
that out as it goes. It's not like the future tenant is going to see the
wireless signals and call the cable cops. Yeah, I think I heard some
Internet sharing going on last night.
He could just share with the guy accross the hall or at the other end of the
building. Hey times are tough for some and manys families with kids need
Internet. Maybe this guy will share without charging. It's not like a bank
job! The prices they charge for high speed internet is rediculous becuase
they have a monopoly until fiber optics becomes wide spread.
You could have
20 or more users surfing the net and not notice a slow. Many people only
a fraction of their bandwith, even with the lowest tier of service.
if several users were downloading songs or Utube videos, at once, I
you would see a slow.
However if you had one user downloading data from a
usenet binaries newsgroup, using a binary news reader with multiple
connections (8-10) then you would definitly experiece some slows.
5) Why would downloading from a usenet binary be any worse than
5A) When your downloading through the internet (surfing) with say MS
Internet Explorer and you click on that Utube video or download a trial
program, you only have one connection requesting data and the total size
that file is very small.
The total size of videos is small? There are companies on the
internet now offering full Hollywood movies streamed to your TV. At
CES this month, there were lots of products to marry TV with
broadband. Sure wouldn't want to do that with the typical single user
internet service split 6 ways.
Those movies are compressed video and your polling them with one connection.
They take a 5 GB movie and compress it to about 1.5 GB. I'm sure everyone
in the building is going to want to down compressed movies at the same time,
but even if they did with a 20Mbps connnection 6 users could do anything any
everything they wanted without slows (as long as no one was using a binary
news reader with 10-20 conns).
When you open your newsgroups with Outlook you
will have only one connection to the news servers.
A Binary usenet user would be using a "binary news reader" like NewsbinPro
or Newsleecher, these are downloading machines! The user is not limited to
1 connection but may have up to 20 simultaneous connections (see
Usenetserver and Giganews) depending on the news server. Typical ISP's
allow 4 connections (if they have bin news groups), while paid for servers
usually allow 10-20 connections. These users are downloading complete CD's
(650MB) , DVD's (4-8 GB), and even HD videos (8-30 GB). They might easily
add 20-30 GB's of files to their download que, hit enter and now they have
10-20 simultaneous connections requesting data from HIGH SPEED SERVERS and
not just for a minute or two but for hours or even days. This will create
Welcome to the real world. To have users today that place a heavy
load on a network, whether downloading from newsgroups, movies,
videos, or similar isn't unusual at all.
Yeah right, keep watching those cable commercials and attending those
tradeshows. I think it's time you upgraded your service. You will get
extra emails accounts for a limited time only. LOL.
You have no idea what a heavy load is until you use a binary news reader.
You got hotels, book stores, coffee shops, and even gas stations with
wireless access. Don't you think they ever have 6 more people accessing the
same router at the same time? How many routers do you think they have at
the local Starbucks? Or Barnes and Noble? One!
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