Re: PC antivirus software question

"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@xxxxxxx> wrote in message news:g7vjp901ldb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Smarty wrote:
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Smarty wrote:
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Smarty wrote:
"aemeijers" <aemeijers@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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J. Clarke wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
salty@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:09:58 -0400, "Smarty"
<nobody@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

<salty@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:smj3a45i02ovh2d4r118mtijfjs1q376jc@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:53:18 -0500, "Steve Barker DLT"
<railphotonut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm a wondering what everyone is using for AV software.
I've
been using Trend micro pc-cillin for a few years, but it
seems
the 2008 version is not
great. My local pc hardware guy agrees and recommends
Kaspersky 2008 Internet Security. Anyone heard of or
used
this one?


thanks for all your input.

steve

What is "not so great" about what you are using?

Get and read the latest issue of Consumer Reports. They did
an
extensive comparison and rated many antivirus suites both
free
and for sale. They liked BitDefender very much, were
surprisingly down on Norton/Symantec (the suite I use) and
also
down on Trend PCCillin, the product I previously used but
found
way too slow and buggy.

Smarty
Those who rely on Consumer Reports for reliable, honest, and
accurate analysis of ANYTHIING, deserve what they get.
What gives you that impression of them? If they had
advertising,
which they don't, I might have a tendency to agree but
without
the
advertising I find them to be pretty "straight up" and
reliable.

Now, let's hear your reasoning.

Experience. Every time I've trusted Consumer Reports I've
gotten
burned.

And their
reliability ratings are meaningless, like any self-selected
polling
pool.

--
aem sends...



I entirely disagree. They gather annual reliability data from
100's
of
thousands of readers through a 4 to 6 page survey form, and
publish
an
analysis of the results. You may call their ratings
"meaningless",
but I will take them any day as a lot better reference than any
other
source I am aware of. Can you name a better database of
reliability
info for consumer products? For that matter, can you name "ANY"
other
source of reliability data on consumer items other than your
typical
anecdotal opinions of a salesperson or neighbor?

You mean besides J.D. Power & Associates?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)





John,

Hardly!! They have no reliability data whatsoever I am aware of.

Well, now we know that your research skills are on a par with those
of Consumer Reports.

Any
by the way, can you show me the link to their comparison of PC
antivirus software products? No you can't, because there isn't any
such review.

Would you provide one credible link to support the contention that
PC
antivirus products suffer mechanical failure?

They are profoundly smaller in scope compared to
Consumer's Union. They deal much more heavily with 'Consumer
Satisfaction', a very useful metric for sure, but they are not in
the
same engineering, publication, or investigative reporting business
as
Consumer's Reports / CU at all.

The issue was determination of reliability via consumer polling,
not
"engineering, publication, or investigative reporting".

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



John,

JD Powers makes no claims to measure reliability, a standard
engineering metric used and quantified throughout the engineering
world. Instead they coin their own "dependability" measure, a term
they chose which is totally unused in any quantifiable engineering
way. Reliability talks in terms of specific failure rates, failure
modes, time between failures, and other very concrete and
universally
accepted engineering measurements and terms used for at least the
40+
years I have been a professional engineer. It has specific and
consistent meaning to anyone with a technical education in
engineering. Dependability is a phrase which a lot of companies hang
their hats on because it deliberately escapes precise and consistent
usage and meaning. No doubt JD Powers has chosen this to avoid
explicit and concrete definition of terms. Just as Maytag did in the
desperate attempt to convince people they still make 'dependable'
appliances.

I see. And so Consumer Reports in their owner surveys determines
"specific failure rates, failure modes, time between failures, and
other very concrete and universally accepted engineering measurements
and terms"?

I'm sorry, but you're quibbling over a point of nomenclature.

I have no idea what your point is regarding mechanical failures for
PC
antivirus software. Clearly JD Powers is by no means nearly as
comprehensive in their scope of product reviews as Consumers Union.
If you are trying to argue to the contrary, please do so.

You stated that on other organization uses owner surveys to collect
reliability data. That is the point being addressed. When antivirus
software suffers "specific failure rates, failure modes, time between
failures, and other very concrete and universally accepted engineering
measurements and terms" then I will look for someone to be publishing
reliability information for antivirus software.

I agree with you that the point is determination of reliability via
consumer polling. I again ask you "Can you name a better database of
reliability info for consumer products"?

Can you name _any_ such that measures reliability using _your_
definition?


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)





John,

Consumers Union uses classical methods and practices to gather and analyze reliability data, and indeed many other organizations do the same, most notably the U.S. government whose military standards and MTBF/MTTR methods shaped a large portion of this country's engineering development approach. Detroit and other manufacturing centers for appliances and electronics have done so for many. decades as well. Indeed CU uses traditional and well accepted methods. Fundamentally they gather, record, and statistically analyze a wide range of detailed failure modes for automobiles in particular but also for other products, deriving failure probabilities which they then portray in a simplified format for the average consumer to digest. They typically use a 5 point scale with such headings as (Much Better than Average, Better than Average, Average, Worse than Average, Much Worse than Average), a bar chart, or some other graphically compact notation. Most notable is their very large and statistically meaningful sample sizes, and their surveying methods which have been refined over (at least) the 38 years I have been a subscriber and survey participant.

If your point is that JD Powers is another legitimate database for some consumer data related to reliability, I agree, but I strongly contend that their scope and their sample sizes are smaller, vastly smaller in the case of automobiles for example, despite their concentration in such products, and vastly smaller in many areas where CU traditionally does its research and they do not.

It is also no small coincidence that CU aggressively prevents advertising and other patently obvious exploitation of their published results by manufacturers to lure buyers. You will NEVER see a car or other product ad which claims: "Selected as the best/most reliable/etc. by Consumers Report" since CU has made it entirely clear that they will litigate and prevail if such attempts are made.

JD Powers, on the other hand, is about as much "in bed" with Detroit and other sources as one could imagine. They actively encourage their endorsements to be used as selling tools. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how this influence peddling cycle works.....


Smarty








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