Re: plug-in "permanent" house wiring

On Oct 8, 6:44 pm, "Pete C." <aux3.DO...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

"de...@xxxxxxxxxx" wrote:

On Oct 8, 4:11 pm, "Pete C." <aux3.DO...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

de...@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Greetings,

I have two computers, one in the basement and one on the third floor,
which I would like to run off the same plug-in UPS (expensive, so I
don't want to purchase another one). There is already conduit going
up to the third floor. What do I need to properly (to-code) install a
UPS protected outlet on the third floor which shares the plug-in UPS
in the basement? Is there a code-compliant solution? Are you allowed
to plug a cord into a UPS which goes into a junction box, is spliced
to THHN, and then into the house wiring?

Thank you for your time,
William

PS: I am not asking for instructions on how to install an outlet. The
outlet that the UPS plugs into in the basement is already GFI
protected. There are enough spare cubic inches in the box to support
an additional device and wiring.

It will cost more to run another wire from the basement to the stars than
the $75 for a UPS.

I'm pretty sure copper prices aren't that high yet, but yes, while a
central UPS is nice, with today's UPS prices distributed UPSes are more
practical.

A new UPS for the third floor would cost $300-400,

Exactly what UPS are you looking at? You certainly don't need a UPS
anywhere near that cost to run a single computer, particularly these
days with LCD monitors. You're not trying to UPS a laser printer are
you???

consume additional
electricity,

Unless it's a hybrid UPS with ferroresonant line conditioner, it's
standby / float charging power consumption is pretty negligible.

and take up space.

The UPS to handle one computer will be about the size of a shoe box, and
shouldn't be any issue to position along with the computer itself.

Then I would have to replace the
batteries in both of them every few years at an increased cost instead
of just the one.

Not likely. My big UPS with my server rack in my garage is now about 10
years old, on it's original set of batteries and is showing no sign of
any problems. The server rack loads it to about 15% capacity and just a
couple weeks ago there was a power failure where it ran some 60 minutes
on battery until I switched to generator power when the UPS reported 20
minutes of battery remaining.

The upstairs UPS, replacement batteries, and power
consumption (including cooling power) would probably come to $750 or
more over its lifetime.

Wildly exaggerated estimate, unless you're counting it's lifetime as 30
years and even then it's probably a high estimate.

If a 42U rack costs $1000 delivered then just
the space in the rack the new UPS would take up could be considered to
cost $100.

What planet are you on buying new racks delivered? Racks are a dime a
dozen used, often free and there is no reason to buy new unless you are
building a showcase data center at which point you still need redundant
UPSes, redundant generators, redundant air conditioning, access floors,
etc.

The dual-UPS solution is NOT the most economical solution.

It is by far, once you open your eyes to the real world and not some
fantasy idea of a shiny enterprise data center.

Spend the $100 of a decent UPS at Fry's, Costco, etc., plug it in
upstairs and get on with your life.

(The data centers I deal with have UPSes and generators rated in MW
total capacity, and $250K/month electric bills)
Hi,
Let me guess, OP'er came here to argue because he does not have real
something to do himself. If he has a wish list, dive in and do it
instead of wasting time arguing with everyone. Military installations
I used to work on went out some times with all that high tech redundancy.
As far as I remember no system has 100% up time. Maybe 99.9999%

The "five 9s" i.e. 99.999% is the gold standard used most places.
Perhaps the military adds an extra decimal place. But that 0.001% is why
you also mirror / RAID all disks, do daily backups and send them off
site, have redundant power supplies on all your CPUs and storage,
redundant network links, etc. Perhaps the OP is planning on hosting a
pay net porn site that will loose money if it's down, in which case it
should be hosted at a real data center anyway.


"What planet do I come from?" Let's try a planet where people use
numbers instead of emotions to make decisions.

A search for "rack mount ups" at froogle.com sorted by relevance
prices the five most relevant at:
$825, $440, $490, $504 and $650

I clicked on the first one and it has a "670W Nominal Output Power",
and provides about 20 minutes of standby time at half load (325W)
which hardly seems excessive. My "kill-a-watt" meter puts my power
usage at just under 400W so I would get a little less than 20 minutes
with new batteries in the unit and less once the batteries age.

If you take the cheapest unit at $440 and pretend the wiring cost was
$140 you come to a $300 initial savings. If your discount rate is 8%
and the project life span is 10 years $300*1.08^10=$647.58.

$647.58 saved based on initial cost alone

Then take a look at batteries:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=Suggested&Description=42-101
Notice the manufacturer states that they are good from 3-5 years.
This makes since because it matches the life expectancy of lead-acid
car batteries and also matches my personal experience.

If the cost of the batteries+shipping for the unit is $50+ (and it is
more) two replacements over a 10 year life expectancy will add another
$100 or so to the total cost.

We are up to $747.58. If the additional UPS uses only 20W and 10W for
cooling 30W at $0.10 per kWh over 10 years comes to $263 which brings
us to about $1010 difference. If the space is free and somehow I have
overestimated by $260 we are still talking about a $750 difference.

If my math is wrong, please show me. Otherwise please help with my
ORIGINAL question. ... and NO ... I am not switching from rack mount
equipment to non-rack mount for a whole variety of reasons that are
even more off the topic of home repair than I have been drawn to by
the erroneous responses about UPS system TCO. Please answer the
original electrical question!

PS: I do have systems at a hosting facility. These systems do not
need to be at a colocation facility or they would be. JEEESH!!!!

.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: How much current safe for 30m extension?
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    ... >>cost a bundle so I thought it would be possible to run a power cable ... >>underground to the big UPS we have in our computer room. ... Last time we had a major failure of the batteries and rectifier it cost ... The spare conduit is already in place underground, ...
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