Re: Self study/Teacher

"Derek" <derek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:65803fd2-54b3-433c-863c-16df6a33af05@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
RichL wrote:
Classic straw-man argument.

Not sure how I set up a straw man. I said i think the whole "self
taught" think is overrated and exaggerated for whatever reason.

Like the urban legend that Jimi was self taught. Just not true.
_________

You met a guy who *claimed* to have taught Jimi. Doesn't make it true. And
with all the famous players who call themselves self-taught (Clapton,
Lennon, McCartney are a few who come to mind) coupled with my own
experience, I can't believe they're all lying!
_________

I asked if we submit ourselves to teaching videos, web sites (both
text and video), books, cds, etc can we claim self taught?
_________

Like I said, I think you're changing the accepted meaning of self-taught. I
interpret it as not using a formal teacher.

Any form of learning requires input in the form of appropriate
instructional
materials. You just don't sit on a sofa and suddenly *know* how to play
guitar. The original question concerned whether a teacher is required. For
some, a teacher is not required.

Agreed. I remember as kids, my cousin lifting tunes all day long off
of his records, became a killer player. Had to figure out later what
he was doing so he could teach it.

Didn't take more than 2-3 lessons so he didn't have a language for
what he was doing much.
_________

I think that's one difference. My "self-teaching" books had lots of theory.
Again, if you're in the right frame of mind, you don't need a formal teacher
for this stuff either.

Back when I was learning to play, we had no software, we had no videos. We
had books (I used the Mel-Bay series) and we had vinyl records.
Fortunately
I had a decent pair of ears and a thirst for knowledge that had me playing
every record I could get my hands on and attempting to learn every lick I
could. After I had a whole mess of chords under my belt and was well on my
way to being a half-decent lead player, I decided to take lessons. But
after two straight lessons of doing nothing but practicing scales, I
decided
they weren't worth the time and effort.


Which gets at one of the OP's questions about whether or not a teacher
is a good one.

I learned basically the same way through high school, college, and a Ph.
D.
program in physics. Particularly in subjects I enjoyed, I would read the
text ahead and work through the problems. Partway through college, the
profs recognized that I learned faster this way and I was given the
opportunity to take a number of "self-study" courses for credit. (These
are
much more common now than back then.) In grad school, of course, you make
a
transition to this mode of learning anyways.

Indeed you do, I have been back to grad school twice. I would say you
are the exception, not the rule.

Not too many self taught Ph. D.'s out there, argreed?
_________

At some point, at least in the scientific and engineering fields, you have
to move past what's already known and examine uncharted territory. You're
shifting into that self-taught mode when you do that. None of the stuff you
do at that level is in books or the minds of teachers.

If you learn without a teacher, you are self-taught. That's the commonly
accepted connotation of the term. It's probably much easier now than back
when I first started (1963), with all the stuff available on the web.-

So what if the teacher is on a video, whether vhs, dvd or web based?
That is what I am trying to get at.
_________

I think one essential difference is that none of these media can tell you
what you're doing wrong. They can show you stuff you haven't seen or heard
before.
_________

With all the advances in learning, and tools available where do we
draw the line and say I am or am not self taught?
_________

I'll admit there's no longer a clear line. Some of these media get close to
having a formal teacher, but there are essential elements missing. Now if
they came up with one where they showed you something, and if you did it
wrong a buzzer would go off, you'd have something! Actually, that's where
I'd draw the line if I had to draw one.

But to me the difference is the burden being on *you* to figure things out,
as opposed to having someone leading you by the hand.

But what's really different now compared with when I learned is the visual
element (i.e., videos). But back then, as now, we could watch other players
and try to figure out what they were doing. Is that "being taught"? Maybe
in a narrow sense, but (a) you're taking the initiative and (b) the
"teacher" is unaware he is teaching!


.

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